The False Doctrine of Election

So there's something you just HAVE to get off your chest, and it doesn't fit into any of the above catagories? All spam, rants, and random chatter belongs in here.
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by LEC » Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:37 am

This may shed some light.


If we are to take the lessons from ''The prodigal Son''

He was a ''wastefull'' son who spent half his inheritance on wine ,women and song,
and the other half he just wasted. :D

The prodigal son saw his detestable state and chose to return onto the father who was awaiting his return.
The father did not go and grab the son and return him to the plantation.
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by iamfreeru2 » Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:26 pm

Maybe this will give you a better understanding of the passage regarding the prodigal son.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Thomas Jeffrey
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by Thomas Jeffrey » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:57 am

Great articles, LEC. Thank you for linking them.
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by iamfreeru2 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 12:27 pm

Jeremiah 31:31-34

King James Version (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
According to the above quote, to whom are the Laws of YHWH written up their hearts. Is it all men or His chosen people Israel? If you believe it to be all men, please provide Chapter and verse.

Also, what about the following:

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Here is how the NASB renders the verse.
Revelation 13:8

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.
Can we put our own names in the book of life? The above verse states all those that do not have their names written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will do what? Worship Christ? No, they worship the beast. It's pretty plain that those of us that are His have had our names written in the book of life before the world began. These are also the ones that have had His laws written upon their hearts, not all men everywhere as some would like to believe. You are either going to take YHWH at His word, and quit listening to man or you are not. It is up to you.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by LEC » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:43 pm

God does not violate our free-will. All through the Scriptures He makes covenants(contracts or agreements) with a cognizant being ,endowed with personal sovereignty. We are free to reject his gift/offering/sacrifice to our own eternal damnation. No one will spend eternity in hell because God damned him.

They will spend eternity in hell for
Refusing to accept the free provision God has offered for their salvation.

The only correct action for man, is to give his sovereignty right back to his blessed Creator!

Your God-given Personal sovereignty allows you to reject the provision God has made for your salvation. Even pagan government recognize this truth.> ... _1s29.html


Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Isaiah 55:6-7.

On December 6, 1829 two men, George Wilson and James Porter, robbed a United States mail carrier in Pennsylvania. Both men were subsequently captured and tried. On May 1, 1830 both men were found guilty of six indictments which included robbery of the mail "and putting the life of the driver in jeopardy." On May 27th both George Wilson and James Porter received their sentences: Execution by hanging. The sentences were to be carried out on July 2nd, 1830.

By today’s standards, this sentence seems very harsh. Remember, no one was killed in their crimes. In the earlier days of American history the justice system more closely followed Biblical principles.

The system was both swift: "Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil." Ecclesiastes 8:11. And harsh: "Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." Genesis 9:6.

James Porter was executed on schedule. George Wilson was not. Shortly before the set date a number of Wilson’s influential friends pleaded for mercy to the President of the United States, Andrew Jackson, on behalf of their friend.

President Jackson issued a formal pardon. The charges resulting in the death sentence were completely dropped. Wilson would have to serve only a prison term of twenty years for his other crimes.

Incredibly George Wilson Refused The Pardon!
According to the official report, THE UNITED STATES VERSUS GEORGE WILSON (Peters 7 Report Sections 150-163) Wilson was returned to court as they attempted to "force" the pardon on him. It is recorded that George Wilson chose to:

"...waive and decline any advantage or protection which might be supposed to arise from the pardon referred to..." Wilson also stated that he "...had nothing to say, and that he did not wish in any manner to avail himself in order to avoid sentence ..."

The case reached the Supreme Court. The Attorney-General made the following comments:

"The court cannot give the prisoner the benefit of the pardon, unless he claims the benefit of it... It is a grant to him: it is his property; and he may accept it or not as he pleases."

Chief Justice John Marshall wrote the following in the decision:

"A pardon is an act of grace, proceeding from the power entrusted with the execution of the laws, which exempts the individual, on whom it is bestowed, from the punishment the law inflicts for a crime he has committed...

"A pardon is a deed, to the validity of which delivery is essential; and delivery is not completed without acceptance. It may then be rejected by the person to whom it is tendered; and if it be rejected, we have discovered no power in a court to force it on him.

"It may be supposed that no being condemned to death would reject a pardon, but the rule must be the same in capital cases and in misdemeanors."

In other words, George Wilson committed a crime. He was tried and found guilty. He was sentenced to be executed. A presidential decree granted him a full pardon. But George Wilson chose rather to refuse that pardon. The courts concluded that the pardon could not be forced upon him.

George Wilson Chose to Die!

Now that you have read George Wilson’s amazing story, you are probably saying: "How could anyone refuse a pardon for the death sentence? The man was a fool!"

What would you say if someone told you that you too were refusing a pardon? A pardon that would result in you spending eternity in the presence of God rather than eternal separation from God in Hell.

If you would like to learn more about the pardon God offers through Jesus Christ please continue reading.

The Bible Plainly Teaches That All of Us Are Sinners

But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6.

The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9.

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Romans 3:10.

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Romans 3:19-20.

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Romans 3:23.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8.

Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin? Proverbs 20:9.

God must Punish Sinners

...The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4.

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Romans 5:12.

For the wages of sin is death... Romans 6:23.

The Death Spoken of Here Is the Second Death

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:14-15.

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8.

But God Has Provided a Pardon

Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die...? For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the LORD GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye. Ezekiel 18:31-32.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9.

Will You Receive or Reject the Pardon?

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:18.

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:36.

Let’s look closely at these last two verses.

1. "He that believeth" is not only "not condemned", but "hath everlasting life."

2. "He that believeth not" is "condemned already" and "shall not see life."

3. Why is he (any person) "condemned already" and has "the wrath of God" abiding on him? Simply because "he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

To "believe" means to depend upon or rely on much like a drowning person must believe (depend upon) a life guard to save his life.

When we believe on the name of Jesus Christ we are depending upon the authority of God the Son to do what He has promised in His Word, the Bible.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. John 1:12.

...Him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. John 6:37.

And you hath he quickened, (made alive) who were dead in trespasses and sins; Ephesians 2:1.

Will You Receive the Pardon?

1. Do you believe you are a guilty sinner? (Romans 3:10, 19-20, 23)

2. Do you believe God punishes sinners? (Ezekiel 18:4; Revelation 21:8)

3. Do you believe Jesus Christ died to save you?

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. Romans 5:8-9.

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 1 Peter 1:18-19.

4. Will you ask the Lord Jesus to save you?

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Romans 10:13.

George Wilson rejected the president’s pardon and lost his human life. Will you reject God’s pardon as provided by Jesus Christ and loose your eternal life?

If you would like to receive the wonderful pardon of eternal life please pray this prayer from your heart:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner. I know I deserve to go to Hell. But I know you died for me. So right now, Jesus, I ask you to come into my heart and save me from my sins. Help me to live for you and take me to Heaven when I die. Thank you for saving me. Amen."

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:1.

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Romans 8:34.
Last edited by LEC on Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:22 pm

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by LEC » Mon Oct 07, 2013 7:49 pm

Universal Atonement

Richard Anthony

Some people claim that Christ died for all men, and therefore, all men are saved automatically. Others claim that Christ did not die for all men, but only for the people that he chose to be saved. Let us look at passages of both sides of the issue.

Passages that say Christ died for all men

1 Timothy 2:5-6, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time."
1 John 4:14, "And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world."

Hebrews 2:9, "But we see Jesus...that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man."

2 Corinthians 5:14-15, "For the love of Christ constraineth us...And that he died for all..."

John 1:29, "...Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world."

1 John 2:2, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

Passages that say Christ died for only His people, His assembly

Isaiah 53:12, “He poured out His soul to death; and with transgressors He was counted; and He bore the sin of many” (not all).
Matthew 20:28, "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

Matthew 26:28, "For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

Romans 5:19, "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous."

Matthew 1:21, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Luke 1:68, "Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,"

Luke 22:20, "Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you."

Acts 20:28, "Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the assembly of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."

Ephesians 5:25, "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the assembly, and gave himself for it;"

John 10:14-15, "I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep."

Luke 13:23-24, "Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

Matthew 7:14, "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

Which is true?

Well, they both are true (when these scriptures are used together), and they both are false (if one claims either one is true or the other).

To say that Christ died only for His elect is to contradict the verses that say he died for all men, in addition to contradicting what Peter says by inspiration in 2 Peter 2:1-4. Peter talked about false teachers who were "even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves." He clearly states that those who teach such "destructive heresies" and those who follow after them will be lost, even though Jesus had paid the price for their salvation.

Others argue that if Christ died for all, then all are saved. If He paid the price for all, then all have been redeemed. If Christ is truly the propitiation for all, then God's demands are satisfied for all. But they forget one vital detail: not all accept the gift! The debt has surely been paid for all by Christ, but not all choose to put on Christ (Galatians 3:26-27). Let's look at the following verse, which brings these two opposing teachings together:

1 Timothy 4:10, "For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe."

You see, salvation is conditional. Christ died for all men, but not all believe and accept His gift of salvation. Therefore, this answers the dilemma of how Christ died for all men and for his people at the same time! Yes, he died for all men, and salvation is a gift offered to all men, but only those who choose Christ will have salvation.

Goats and Sheep

Some are under the assumption that all of mankind are like sheep. I mean, didn't Isaiah write, "We, like sheep, have all gone astray" (Isaiah 53:6, I Peter 2:25)? Isaiah was not a prophet to all nations (even though he prophesied to other nations). Isaiah was a prophet to the nation of Israel. So, what he meant was, the people of God are like sheep.

It is the same concerning what Jesus said. He said He laid down His life for the sheep, i.e., His people. Jesus told some Jews, "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." (John 8:44, 47). And later still, He told them plainly, "Ye are not of My sheep" (John 10:26).

In Matthew 25:32-33, Jesus said He would separate the nations "as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats." Those who are of the sheep inherited the Kingdom, but the goats were not allowed into the kingdom.

With all of this information, will we conclude that those who are "goats" and "not of God" but who are "from the Devil," have salvation, when Christ so clearly excluded them? The answer is, "No." So will we then conclude that Christ did not die for the "goats", but only for "His sheep"? The answer is, "No."

You see, Christ died for both the goats and the sheep. That is the gift he offers to all men, to the world. He offers everybody salvation. But not everybody has salvation. Only those who accept His gift will become "His sheep," and only His sheep will have salvation.

Romans 5:5-6

Here is a passage that some claim it says "Christ died for all men," and at the same time, some claim it says "Christ died only for his people."

Romans 5:5-6, "And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly."

Those who believe in Universal Salvation say that since Christ died for "the ungodly," that means he did not die just for "his people," and therefore, even the ungodly have salvation. Those who claim that Christ died only for his people say this passage applies strictly to the "our" and "us" in the above passage. The "our" and "us," they say, is the apostle Paul (Romans 1:1) and those “beloved of God” in Rome (Romans 1:7).

But the truth is that those who are "saved" were once ungodly. For example, the apostle Paul, before he was saved, was a Pharisee and dragged Christians from their homes and had them killed. He was ungodly. He was a goat. But he eventually chose Christ and became a part of His sheep. So Christ died for the ungodly, yes, but only those who accept Christ into their life will have salvation.

But doesn't God love Everybody?

It has been customary to say God loves the sinner though He hates his sin, but that is a meaningless distinction. What is there in a sinner but sin? Is it not true that his "whole head is sick" and his "whole heart faint," and that "from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness" in him? (Isaiah 1:5-6). Is it true that God loves the one who is despising and rejecting His blessed Son? To tell the Christ-rejecter that God loves him is to cauterize his conscience as well as to afford him a sense of security in his sins. The fact is, the love of God is a truth for the saints only, and to present it to the enemies of God is to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs.

If it be true that God loves every member of the human family then why did our Lord tell His disciples "He that hath My commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth Me: and he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father... If a man love Me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him" (John 14:21, 23)? Why say "he that loveth Me shall be loved of My Father" if the Father loves everybody? The same limitation is found in Proverbs 8:17: "I love them that love Me."

Again; we read, "Thou hatest all workers of iniquity" (Psalm 5:5) - not merely the works of iniquity. Here then is a flat repudiation of present teaching that, God hates sin but loves the sinner. "He that believeth not on the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abideth on him" (John 3:36). Can God "love" the one on whom His "wrath" abides?

Again; it is written, "For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth" (Hebrews 12:6). Does not this verse teach that God's love is restricted to the members of His own family? If He loves all men without exception then the distinction and limitation here mentioned is quite meaningless.

To tell the Christ-rejecter that God loves him is to afford him a sense of security in his sins. If Jesus gave salvation to everyone, everyone would be in heaven. All sins of all people would be forgiven. But obviously, all sins are not forgiven.

If we stop volunteering to enslave ourselves, Stop doing business with the beast. Come out of Babylon!
And KEEP YE SEPERATE! The charade will come crashing down!

·The only power tyrants have is the power relinquished to them by their victims.

·The tyrant is often a weak little man. He has no special qualities that set him apart from anyone else - yet the gullible idolize him.

·The victims bring about their own subjection - they "win their enslavement."

·If without violence the tyrant is simply not obeyed, he becomes "naked and undone and as nothing."

·Once you resolve to serve no more, you are free.

·We are all born free and naturally free.

·Grown-up adults should adopt reason as their guide and never become slaves of anybody.

·People can be enslaved through either force or deception.

·When people lose their freedom through deceipt, it is because they mislead themselves.

·People born into slavery regard it as a natural condition.

·In general, people are shaped more by their environment than by their natural capacities - if they allow it.

·Habit and custom are powerful forces that keep people enslaved.

·There are always some people who cannot be tamed, subjected, or enslaved. Even if freedom were to be entirely extinguished, these people would re-invent it.

·Lovers of freedom tend to be ineffective because they are not known to one another.

·People who lose their freedom also lose their valor (strength of mind, bravery).

·Among free people there is competition to do good for humanity.

·People seem to be most gullible towards those who deliberately set out to fool them. It is as if people have a need to be deceived.

·Tyrants stupefy their victims with "pastimes and vain pleasures flashed before their eyes."

·Tyrants parade like "workers of magic."

·Tyrants can only give back part of what they first took from their victims.

·Tyrants attain their positions through: (a) Force; (b) Birth; or (c) Election.

·Tyrants create a power structure, consisting of a multi-layered hierarchy, staffed by a conspiracy of accomplices. Accomplices receive their positions as a favor from the tyrant.

·The worst dregs of society gather around the tyrant - they are people of weak character who trade servility for unearned wealth.

·Accomplices can profit greatly from their positions in the hierarchy.

·If people withdraw their support, the tyrant topples over from his own corrupted weight.

” tyrant who has no other power than the power they give him”

“Shall we say that those who serve him are cowardly and faint-hearted?”

“It is therefore the inhabitants themselves who permit, or, rather, bring about, their own subjection, since by ceasing to submit they would put an end to their servitude. A people enslaves itself, cuts its own throat, when, having a choice between being vassals and being free men, it deserts its liberties and takes on the yoke, gives consent to its own misery, or, rather, apparently welcomes it”

“the more one yields to them, and obeys them, by that much do they become mightier and more formidable, the readier to annihilate and destroy. But if not one thing is yielded to them, if, without any violence they are simply not obeyed, they become naked and undone and as nothing, just as, when the root receives no nourishment, the branch withers and dies.”

“Liberty is the only joy upon which men do not seem to insist; for surely if they really wanted it they would claim it. Apparently they refuse this wonderful privilege because it is so easily acquired.”

“You let yourselves be deprived before your own eyes of the best part of your revenues; your fields are plundered, your homes robbed, your family heirlooms taken away. You live in such a way that you cannot claim a single thing as your own; and it would seem that you consider yourselves lucky to be loaned your property, your families, and your very lives.”

“He who thus domineers over you has only two eyes, only two hands, only one body, no more than is possessed by the least man among the infinite numbers dwelling in your cities; he has indeed nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you.”

“Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break into pieces.”

“we should be intuitively obedient to our parents; later we should adopt reason as our guide and become slaves to nobody”

“we are all naturally free”

“Since freedom is our natural state, we are not only in possession of it but have the urge to defend it.”

” what evil chance has so denatured man that he, the only creature really born to be free, lacks the memory of his original condition and the desire to return to it?”

“Certainly all men, as long as they remain men, before letting themselves become enslaved must either be driven by force or led into it by deception”

“When they lose their liberty through deceit they are not so often betrayed by others as misled by themselves.”

“men born under the yoke and then nourished and reared in slavery are content, without further effort, to live in their native circumstance, unaware of any other state or right, and considering as quite natural the condition into which they were born.”

“we learn to swallow, and not to find bitter, the venom of servitude.”

“It is truly the nature of man to be free and to wish to be so, yet his character is such that he instinctively follows the tendencies that his training gives him.”

“custom becomes the first reason for voluntary servitude.”

“Even if liberty had entirely perished from the earth, such men would invent it. For them slavery has no satisfactions, no matter how well disguised.”

“men of strong zeal and devotion, who in spite of the passing of time have preserved their love of freedom, still remain ineffective because, however numerous they may be, they are not known to one another”

“The essential reason why men take orders willingly is that they are born serfs and are reared as such.”

“liberty once lost, valor [strength of mind, bravery] also perishes.”

“Among free men there is competition as to who will do most, each for the common good, each by himself, all expecting to share in the misfortunes of defeat, or in the benefits of victory;”

“stupefied peoples, fascinated by the pastimes and vain pleasures flashed before their eyes,”

“The fools did not realize that they were merely recovering a portion of their own property, and that their ruler could not have given them what they were receiving without having first taken it from them.”

“It is pitiful to review the list of devices that despots have used to establish their tyranny; to discover how many little tricks they employed, always finding the populace conveniently gullible, readily caught in the net as soon as it was spread.”

“It has always happened that tyrants, in order to strengthen their power, have made every effort to train their people not only in obedience and servility toward themselves, but also in adoration.”

“four or five who maintain the dictator,”

“The six have six hundred who profit under them,”

“The six hundred maintain under them six thousand,”

“not the six thousand but a hundred thousand, and even millions, cling to the tyrant by this cord to which they are tied.”

“through big favors or little ones, that large profits or small are obtained under a tyrant,”

“Whenever a ruler makes himself a dictator, all the wicked dregs who are corrupted by burning ambition or extraordinary avarice, these gather around him and support him in order to have a share in the booty and to constitute themselves petty chiefs under the big tyrant.”

“men accept servility in order to acquire wealth”

“how great is the number of those who, having by shameful means won the ear of tyrants - who either profit from their villainies or take advantage of their naivete - were in the end reduced to nothing by these very tyrants;”

“the majority of the dictators of former days were commonly slain by their closest favorites”

“the tyrant is never truly loved, nor does he love.”

“Let us therefore learn while there is yet time, let us learn to claim our liberty. Let us open our eyes to our natural freedom for the sake of our honor, for the very love of virtue. As for me, I truly believe I am right, since there is nothing so contrary to reason as self-imposed tyranny. I believe the time will come when support will be withdrawn from tyrants and their accomplices. Then let us watch them all fall from their own corrupted weight.”
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by iamfreeru2 » Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:47 pm

God does not violate our free-will. All through the Scriptures He makes covenants(contracts or agreements) with a cognizant being ,endowed with personal sovereignty. We are free to reject his gift/offering/sacrifice to our own eternal damnation. No one will spend eternity in hell because God damned him.
This first paragraph show you have no understanding of the Doctrine of Election. YHWH damns no one, they damn themselves. It takes belief for man to be saved, but before that man can believe it takes the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit. When someone can show me from Scripture where man has been given "free will" and "personal sovereignty", then and only then will I believe it.
Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Man in his depravity does not have the capacity or the capability to come to YHWH on his own. To deny this is to deny Scripture.
Romans 8:7 "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."
John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:65 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
What do the two verses from John state? That man's has "free will" or "personal sovereignty" to come to Yeshua? No, it says the Father must draw him or he cannot come, not will not, but cannot.
Romans 3:10-18 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:

15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:

16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:

17 And the way of peace have they not known:

18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Psalm 14 2-3 The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Do these verse state that man is sovereign or that his "free will" causes him to seek YHWH? It says corrupt man does not seek Him.
Genesis 6:5 "And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually."
Acts 13:48 "And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."
I suppose YHWH had nothing to do with the gentiles being appointed to eternal life, that this verse is a lie?
Ephesians 1:4-5 "According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,"

1:11 "In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:"
Some on this forum say the quote from Eph 1:4-5 has nothing to do with salvation. If that is not about salvation, I do not know what is.
Ephesians 2:1-5 "And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),"
John 11:39-43 "Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been dead four days. 40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? 41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.
43 And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth."
Just as Lazarus was dead in the tomb and could do nothing to resist Yeshua when he commanded Lazarus to come forth, so also the sinner that is dead in trespasses and sins cannot resist the Father's regenerating power that brings him from death to life in Yeshua.

AS far as man being sovereign SCripture has this to say:

1 Timothy 6:15 "which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,"
Finally, I have yet to find anyone here or anywhere else for that matter, that can refute with Scriptural context the Doctrine of Election (Sovereign Grace). I always see people go around the mountain, but will not address the real scriptural issues head on, with Scripture. As it is said Scripture interprets Scripture.

Blessings in the name of the only Sovereign, YHWH
Last edited by iamfreeru2 on Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by iamfreeru2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:12 am

John MacArthur addresses 1 John 2:2.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Thomas Jeffrey
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by Thomas Jeffrey » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:08 am

Wow, LEC! Excellent piece on pardons!

Man has the freedom to refuse or accept a covenant with the Lord, as well as a pardon, if offered. A great deal of Scripture deals with God's desire for men to accept His offered Law, covenants, blessings, Lordship, and associated pardon from the death sentence.

If you don't mind, I'm going to save that to my library.
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: The False Doctrine of Election

Post by iamfreeru2 » Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:09 am

I copy and paste the first three pragraphs of an article on Romans 9:19. I nope you will take the time to read the entire article. You may learn something, as I did. However, this is a very lengthy article.

Rom. 9:19

The subject...MAN'S WILL versus GOD'S WILL. Man's power relative to God's power. How free is man to express and perform his own will? Has it really been granted of God for man to do perpetually as man pleases? Are we in actual reality, resisting God's providential will even when we believe that we are? Is personal salvation based upon man's will and choice, or God's?

On the surface, it is scripturally evident that man's place in the mechanics of God's eternal plan indicates that man is not a mindless robot or puppet devoid of a personal will. Yet, contrary to popular belief, and shocking as it may be to some, neither is man's own will actually in control of his own ultimate destiny. We ask, "Is it not Christ alone, who has the necessary keys to open or lock the prison doors of hell and death?" Matt.16:18,19; Rev.1:18; 3:7. We shall endeavor to bring to light through the scriptures, a portion of truth in regards to one's so called "free will" Gen.49:6; Tit.1:7; 2Ptr.2:10. Hopefully, these scriptures may shed a few rays of revelational light on controversial questions such as ..."Can man resist God's influences on his life? Could he continue forever to resist God's will?" Further yet, "Can man really resist it at all?" Rom.9:19.

Common Christian belief is, that God can do anything except interfere with man's will. Many believe that man retains an absolute and final power of volition. But is this so according to God's word? A close up examination of the scriptures will reveal beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is not so! It is God's omnipotent power of will only which operates in absolute, unlimited, unrestricted freedom and strength in all of His creation. Man's clearly does not!
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Post Reply