Just have to rant

So there's something you just HAVE to get off your chest, and it doesn't fit into any of the above catagories? All spam, rants, and random chatter belongs in here.
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cobra2411
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Just have to rant

Post by cobra2411 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:13 pm

Because, often enough, I'll see people arguing about how the constitution doesn't apply to them. Or maybe it's the other side that says the constitution gives them rights... Too many people have no clue what the constitution is and what it's for!

The constitution is a limitation on government. I've heard the argument "Well it doesn't apply to me because I didn't sign 200+ years ago" or something similar. It doesn't apply to you because it never applied to you. If you've never been in the military or held public office, when was the last time you took an oath to the constitution? Exactly! Never... But government takes oaths to uphold it making it apply to them.

As for constitutional rights, they don't exist. The constitution grants nothing. It merely protects the rights that exist already. If some Hitler like dictator states that all blue skinned people must die, does that mean they don't have a right to life anymore? No! It's just not being respected. You have constitutionally protected rights.

And lastly... Rights are negative things. They don't grant anything. That you have a right to life doesn't mean the doctor has to keep you alive. He just can't kill you. At least without your permission... You have a right to work, but not the guarantee of work... Etc... And if you're so called "right" infringes upon another it's not a right....

David

PS, I feel better now... :)
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editor
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by editor » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:47 am

I'm happy to see you have this figured out, David. Hopefully your post will help someone else see it as well, although we're usually preaching to the choir here.

It's also important to point out that rights always come with corresponding duties.

You may have the right to life, but the duty to sustain that life yourself is yours, and it comes first.

You may have the right to liberty, and to pursue happiness, but those rights are curtailed by your duty to not infringe upon the rights of others. Cross that line and you may lawfully lose your liberty, or even your life, not to mention your happiness.

Your right to be secure in your own property only works so long as you respect the rights of others in their property.

I have little respect for dishonesty. However I've always said, a con-man is a crook who deceives people and takes something from them, but always with the victim's consent. I respect a con-man more than a thief who steals outright. Likewise I respect a thief more than someone who is able to work, but stays home and collects welfare. Such a man doesn't have the wit to con, or the initiative to steal for himself, but instead is content to sit back and let government steal on his behalf.
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notmartha
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by notmartha » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:36 pm

You may enjoy Lysander Spooner's No Treason. No. VI., The Constitution of No Authority [1870]. You can download it here:

http://oll.libertyfund.org/title/2194
cobra2411
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by cobra2411 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:46 pm

notmartha wrote:You may enjoy Lysander Spooner's No Treason. No. VI., The Constitution of No Authority [1870]. You can download it here:

http://oll.libertyfund.org/title/2194
That's where some of my frustration comes from... I've tried to read it, but it triggers the same nail scratching response that people who quote it do. "I wasn't alive back then..." blah blah blah... I bet they would throw the constitution out in a second if they could thinking "I'm not going to be bound by this... Hell, I'll be that between the media and publik egumakashun more than half of the women marching the other day would have signed a petition to end woman's suffrage. Much more than half... Nobody takes the time to learn what the constitution is really about, they just listen to some sound bite or meme on facebook.

If you go back to the origins and learn about the people and the times it's so very clear it was always binding upon the government and not the people. And the bankers from day one were trying to co-opt it and take control...
cobra2411
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by cobra2411 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:58 pm

editor wrote:I'm happy to see you have this figured out, David. Hopefully your post will help someone else see it as well, although we're usually preaching to the choir here.

It's also important to point out that rights always come with corresponding duties.
Like two sides of a coin. You want heads? You get tails too...

Yeah, it's going on about 10 years since I dug deep into this. Quite the ride; overwhelming at times... I still remember the first moment it all clicked and I'm like "Wait a minute!!?! Almost everything they do now is unconstitutional!!"

About 5 years ago I got fed up. Stress was really getting to me and it was a lot to keep up with the Jones's. I was living in the nice suburban rancher with the fenced in yard in one of the more desirable neighborhoods in my county. New cars every few years, vacationing around the world, low six figure income, but solid six figure income...

And one day I realized that it's never going to stop, it's never going to change, it's going to be the next corrupt politician after another and what did I really want in life? So I moved to the country and got 3-4 times the land for 1/3rd the price and significantly cut my income. Still driving the same cars I was 5 years ago too... I appealed the property taxes at the new house and lowered them by more than half and I pay less taxes.

I've gone Galt... :)

While I love this country and the constitution I don't know that it can be fixed. I think it's going to have to collapse and to that end sometimes I like the idea of more and more on welfare and assistance and just suck up that taxpayer money and collapse the system. Of course I know it's fraud and modern day slavery, so...
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notmartha
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by notmartha » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:01 pm

That's where some of my frustration comes from... I've tried to read it, but it triggers the same nail scratching response that people who quote it do.
Ok then....

This is your rant so I won't quote from it here, but really, you might want to try to read it all the way through. :D
cobra2411
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by cobra2411 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:46 pm

notmartha wrote:
That's where some of my frustration comes from... I've tried to read it, but it triggers the same nail scratching response that people who quote it do.
Ok then....

This is your rant so I won't quote from it here, but really, you might want to try to read it all the way through. :D
Please feel free. I'm always up for learning more and I admit that due to frustration I put it down. Too many people were arguing that they had this magic book that showed how they are not actually bound by the constitution. I immediately thought - you never were... The very beginning of Spooner's work mirrored that so I put it down. A broken clock might be right twice a day, but I'm not going to use it to tell time...

So hey, I'd love to know if I have it wrong...
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notmartha
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by notmartha » Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:58 am

cobra2411 wrote:more than half of the women marching the other day would have signed a petition to end woman's suffrage.
You mean like this… :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQJQ--T4U0c


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQJQ--T4U0c
Last edited by notmartha on Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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notmartha
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by notmartha » Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:45 pm

Here are a few quotes from Spooner's "No Treason. No. VI" for the sake of discussion:

Page 13:
The ostensible supporters of the Constitution, like the ostensible supporters of most other governments, are made up of three classes, viz.:

1. Knaves, a numerous and active class, who see in the government an instrument which they can use for their own
aggrandizement or wealth.

2. Dupes—a large class, no doubt—each of whom, because he is allowed one voice out of millions in deciding what he may do with his own person and his own property, and because he is permitted to have the same voice in robbing, enslaving, and murdering others, that others have in robbing, enslaving, and murdering himself, is stupid enough to imagine that he is a “free man,” a “sovereign”; that this is “a free government”; “a government of equal rights,” “the best government on earth,”* and such like absurdities.

3. A class who have some appreciation of the evils of government, but either do not see how to get rid of them, or do not choose to so far sacrifice their private interests as to give themselves seriously and earnestly to the work of making a change.
Page 14:
But this theory of our government is wholly different from the practical fact. The fact is that the government, like a highwayman, says to a man: Your money, or your life. And many, if not most, taxes are paid under the compulsion of that threat. The government does not, indeed, waylay a man in a lonely place, spring upon him from the road side, and, holding a pistol to his head, proceed to rifle his pockets. But the robbery is none the less a robbery on that account; and it is far more dastardly and shameful.

The highwayman takes solely upon himself the responsibility, danger, and crime of his own act. He does not pretend that he has any rightful claim to your money, or that he intends to use it for your own benefit. He does not pretend to be anything but a robber. He has not acquired impudence enough to profess to be merely a “protector,” and that he takes men’s money against their will, merely to enable him to “protect” those infatuated travellers, who feel perfectly able to protect themselves, or do not appreciate his peculiar system of protection. He is too sensible a man to make such professions as these.

Furthermore, having taken your money, he leaves you, as you wish him to do. He does not persist in following you on the road, against your will; assuming to be your rightful “sovereign,” on account of the “protection” he affords you. He does not keep “protecting” you, by commanding you to bow down and serve him; by requiring you to do this, and forbidding you to do that; by robbing you of more money as often as he finds it for his interest or pleasure to do so; and by branding you as a rebel, a traitor, and an enemy to your country, and shooting you down without mercy, if you dispute his authority, or resist his demands. He is too much of a gentleman to be guilty of such impostures, and insults, and villanies as these.

In short, he does not, in addition to robbing you, attempt to make you either his dupe or his slave.

Page 55:
Inasmuch as the Constitution was never signed, nor agreed to, by anybody, as a contract, and therefore never bound anybody, and is now binding upon nobody; and is, moreover, such an one as no people can ever hereafter be expected to consent to, except as they may be forced to do so at the point of the bayonet, it is perhaps of no importance what its true legal meaning, as a contract, is. Nevertheless, the writer thinks it proper to say that, in his opinion, the Constitution is no such instrument as it has generally been assumed to be; but that by false interpretations, and naked usurpations, the government has been made in practice a very widely, and almost wholly, different thing from what the Constitution itself purports to authorize. He has heretofore written much, and could write much more, to prove that such is the truth. But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain—that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.
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Re: Just have to rant

Post by Firestarter » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:48 pm

cobra2411 wrote:As for constitutional rights, they don't exist. The constitution grants nothing. It merely protects the rights that exist already. If some Hitler like dictator states that all blue skinned people must die, does that mean they don't have a right to life anymore? No! It's just not being respected. You have constitutionally protected rights.
Don't you think it's great that you have constitutional rights and when these are violated... there's nothing you can do about it!

Maybe you should consider that you "Americans" (I once heard a South American calling himself an "American" and found it hard to disagree) theoretically can vote for politicians that could theoretically make a change (for the better).
Here in the Netherlands we have the "right" to vote for politicians that play second fiddle to the King.
While in the likes of Canada and Australia the Governor-General rules supreme, that gets selected by Queen Elizabeth (but please don't call these "sovereign" states - colonies).

When I tell sheeple about the dictatorial powers of Royal families, sometimes they actually get angry at me (for telling the truth).
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