Does man choose to be born again of his own "free will"?

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iamfreeru2
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Does man choose to be born again of his own "free will"?

Post by iamfreeru2 » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:33 pm

Does man in fact choose to be born into the family of YHWH, born again? Let's take a look at, and discuss, the following verses:
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
These verses state that the power men have to become sons of YHWH were given to them by YHWH. Does it say anything about man giving himself this power? The verses then go on to say, those that are spiritually born, or born again, were born not by man's own will, in other words man did not will himself into the family of YHWH, verse 13 clearly states it is by the will of YHWH that man is born into the family of YHWH. So we see than man had nothing to do with his being born again.
Romans 8:29 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."
In this verse YHWH states those he foreknew, he knew them in eternity past, He decided (chose) in advance they would be conformed to the image of His dear Son. Notice He predestined, this has nothing to do with man willing himself to be conformed.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/predestined
pre·des·tine (pr-dstn)
tr.v. pre·des·tined, pre·des·tin·ing, pre·des·tines
1. To fix upon, decide, or decree in advance; foreordain.
2. Theology To foreordain or elect by divine will or decree.
Romans 8:30 "Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
Now, to those he decided in advance to be conformed, He also called, meaning He called them to himself. Unless YHWH does the calling man cannot come to Yeshua (See John 6:44). Ok, to them he called, he also justified (saved from the penalty of sin). Again, this has nothing to do with man saving himself, choosing YHWH on his own.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/justify
jus·ti·fy (jst-f)
v. jus·ti·fied, jus·ti·fy·ing, jus·ti·fies
v.tr.
1. To demonstrate or prove to be just, right, or valid:
2. To declare free of blame; absolve.
3. To free (a human) of the guilt and penalty attached to grievous sin. Used of God.
Are the verses in Romans stating that because YHWH looked ahead and saw that man was going to choose Him of his own "free will", that YHWH chose them to be His own? Is that what is being said here? It is true that YHWH knows the end from the beginning, He knows what is going to happen before it's going to happen because he created it all. Nothing catches Him unawares (see Isaiah 46:10). But does that mean that YHWH must choose according to what man does?

If it is true that YHWH saw into the future that man was going choose Him of his own "free will", then forget about YHWH choosing anything or anyone. Forget about YHWH being Sovereign. If YHWH must wait for man to choose Him first, then YHWH is not God, man is.

Let's also take a look at the following verse:

John 6:65 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."KJV

John 6:65 "And He was saying, 'For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.'" NASB
Here is another verse to consider:
Matthew 11:27 "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him."
The only way you can know the Father is if Yeshua reveal Him to you, and the only way you can know the Son is, if the Father grant it you/draw (see John 6:44, 65) you to Him. Some may ask what do you mean by know? Well, is information about the Father the same as knowing Him? Siiners, demons, etc., may have information about the Father, but that is not the same as knowing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JkuaUik1Hg
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Dumpster
Posts: 16
Joined: Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:03 pm

Re: Does man choose to be born again of his own "free will"?

Post by Dumpster » Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:46 pm

I get what I call, 'information constipation' when it comes to the topic of 'born again' and 'free will'.

To me, YHWH draws someone towards Him, but leaves the drawn to choose to follow.

As far as being born again, I believe a person after choosing to follow redirects their life towards YHWH with His assistance. But being totally reborn, I don't know if that happens until an individual dies.

Like in John chapter 3 where Messiah explains all about it to Nicodemus; 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. [And] 8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

So a being that is born again goes about like the wind, invisible, a spirit being. Messiah was the first born again, He is The example; He died and was reborn a Spirit being.

12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

I don't post the above with any intention to sway or teach anyone from their beliefs; it's just how the scripture reads to me.
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