Alex Jones - legitimate news, or propaganda outlet?

So there's something you just HAVE to get off your chest, and it doesn't fit into any of the above catagories? All spam, rants, and random chatter belongs in here.
iamfreeru2
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Re: Alex Jones - legitimate news, or propaganda outlet?

Post by iamfreeru2 » Thu May 30, 2013 12:28 pm

editor wrote:It's really simple. I have no animosity towards you, iamfreeru2, I am merely holding you to a higher standard.

You've drawn attention to my comment about my own anger with your tactics, and said "What has this to do with Alex Jones?" You are correct. My feelings about your tactics have nothing to do with Jones.

Likewise, your argument against Jones has had absolutely nothing to do with Jones. Not one scrap. You have made allegations against Jones. In spite of repeated requests by me for actual evidence, you have produced nothing but heresay, third-party character assassination, and SMOKE.

I had never seen the Bohemian Grove video until you mentioned it. Do I believe it? I neither believe or disbelieve it. Jones seems to have done some good research. I know from having read numerous other sources that many people, such as high-level Freemasons, have occultist beliefs. Much of what Jones reports is admitted by some of the people mentioned in his report, and that comes from other news sources. It's plausible.

Without further study, your first-person comment that you lived 15 miles from the Grove doesn't carry a whole lot of weight. Plenty of people lived within a mile of Auchwitz, and claimed they didn't know what was happening inside. It's easy to point at something, like Nelson Muntz (of the Simpsons), and say "Ha haw!", without offering any evidence of your own. Nelson doesn't have much influence, outside of grade-school.

I am keeping an open mind with regard to Alex Jones. So far, having seen what I have of his news programs, I have no reason to mistrust him. That doesn't mean I will blindly follow anything he says. It simply means I will use him as a source of news, and be glad he's there.

If you manage to produce an actual news story that Jones got wrong, will I continue to watch his programs? Probably yes. I challenge you to find ANY news agency that hasn't gotten something wrong. The same can be said of friends. I stopped looking for perfection in people a long time ago. Anyone whose merits outweigh his flaws, can be a valued friend.
Perhaps you might tell me what my tactics are? Since I don't know what they are maybe you can tell me.

Yes, I lived near the Bohemian Grove. Yes, I knew people that worked there, that knew what went on inside. Jones alleged there were "secret service" there at the time of his filming, and there were none. He alleged there were "presidents" there, and there were none. He alleged he was confronted a number of times by the "secret police", "sheriffs", "security", etc., and everytime claims he ran out of film and could not get them on tape. How very convenient, to run out of film. Where is Jones proof of his claims?

Now it is insunuated I am a liar, and I am about "smoke". I have already stated Alex Jones has some credible people on his show. You have not once shown proof that somehow makes him credible. I simply stated what I believe to be true about Alex Jones tactics, and to beware that he is not who he appears to be, but I get blasted as being about "smoke".

Another poster told me to check out lawful path. I did, now you can have it back.

BTW, I never said Alex Jones did not have some legitimate news on his program. I never said he did not have good people telling truth on his show. Even the NWO tells what they are doing in plain view, that is, if you have eyes to see. Obviously, some do not.


Ezekiel 33:1-11

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
The Watchman’s Duty

33 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying, 2 “Son of man, speak to the sons of your people and say to them, ‘If I bring a sword upon a land, and the people of the land take one man from among them and make him their watchman, 3 and he sees the sword coming upon the land and blows on the trumpet and warns the people, 4 then he who hears the sound of the trumpet and does not take warning, and a sword comes and takes him away, his blood will be on his own head. 5 He heard the sound of the trumpet but did not take warning; his blood will be on himself. But had he taken warning, he would have delivered his life. 6 But if the watchman sees the sword coming and does not blow the trumpet and the people are not warned, and a sword comes and takes a person from them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood I will require from the watchman’s hand.’

7 “Now as for you, son of man, I have appointed you a watchman for the house of Israel; so you will hear a message from My mouth and give them warning from Me. 8 When I say to the wicked, ‘O wicked man, you will surely die,’ and you do not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require from your hand. 9 But if you on your part warn a wicked man to turn from his way and he does not turn from his way, he will die in his iniquity, but you have delivered your life.

10 “Now as for you, son of man, say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus you have spoken, saying, “Surely our transgressions and our sins are upon us, and we are rotting away in them; how then can we survive?”’ 11 Say to them, ‘As I live!’ declares the Lord God, ‘I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways! Why then will you die, O house of Israel?’
Good day to you sir. Oh, and please delete my account from your forum.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
iamfreeru2
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Re: Alex Jones - legitimate news, or propaganda outlet?

Post by iamfreeru2 » Thu May 30, 2013 7:24 pm

I have linked to another audio on youtube you need to listen too. Also pay attention to the comments section. Why does Alex Jones censor this? Is it because Alex has an agenda? The evidence keeps mounting if you are willing to look for it?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vGrSI1G6aM

Now I am done.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
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Re: Alex Jones - legitimate news, or propaganda outlet?

Post by editor » Thu May 30, 2013 8:22 pm

iamfreeru2,

I never said you are a liar, nor did I mean to insinuate.

There's a country club about fifteen miles from where I live. As usual, the members tend to be those with wealth and/or political power in the area. I've heard stories of some pretty wild parties, but I do not pretend to know what really goes on there. If the people who work there talk too much, it's a fair bet they'll lose their jobs.

I've never thought the majority of people who said they didn't know what was happening at Auchwitz were liars. I believe them.

When people set out to do something, anything, they usually have tactics. If you plan to grill hamburgers, then your tactics should include having a grill, making sure you have the right fuel, having fresh hamburger, spices, a spatula or tongs, and know something about when to take the meat off the fire so it's not too rare or overdone.

Tactics, in and of themselves, are not necessarily evil, or good. They are more accurately described as effective, or ineffective.

We are having a debate. Anyone who engages in a debate is trying to put a point across. Debaters should try to develop effective tactics. Up until fifty or sixty years ago, debates were more common. When it became fashionable to say "Don't talk about religion or politics in polite company," most people lost or failed to develop decent debating skills.

In this debate, I set the topic, "Alex Jones - legitimate news, or propaganda outlet?"

Of your own accord, you chose the side, "Propaganda Outlet."

I have no problem with that. Why would I? Without someone on that side, we have no debate.

Almost immediately, the debate became more about your tactics, which fall short of effective. Everything I have said to you on this issue, has been an effort to motivate you to be more effective. If you really don't know what your own tactics are, that may explain matters. Without a plan, how can you hope to get your point across?

You made a statement: "...I believe Alex is nothing more than a shill." That was opinion. The commonly accepted thing for you to do at this point is to give us one or more reasons why you have this opinion, and give some examples.

For instance, if I said, "I think Rush Limbaugh is a shill." I should follow up with something like this:

"In 1993, before the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) was signed, there was a large national debate. Many people were either for or against. Limbaugh rode the fence, saying he was undecided. Then he took a trip to Israel and, upon his return, came out in favor of NAFTA. Immediately thereafter, his career took an upswing. I can't prove it, but I believe he was rewarded for his support of NAFTA."

Notice I haven't quoted hard facts. But that's okay, because I've only stated an opinion. It's different if you're working with factual declarations. For example, your statement:

"Alex Jones has been caught on a number of occasions disrupting freedom loving people's protests and can be found on youtube."

This statement begs to be backed up with a link. When I asked, you provided a link to the Bloom - Phelps interview. I won't re-hash the interview, as I've addressed it in detail already. Suffice to say, it did not support your declaration.

When I pointed out the insufficient supporting evidence, you brought up Jones' "Bohemian Grove" video, and said you have first-hand knowledge it is false. However, you didn't say what made it false, or offer any examples. The reader (and your fellow debater) is left wondering, even as to the degree of your claim of false. Is there such a place as Bohemian Grove, or did Jones make that up? Is all of the video false, or only parts? Which parts? We don't know. You've followed up with a little more, but there still isn't much to go on.

And what about your first-hand knowledge. Were you there, or are you relying on heresay (in which case it's not first-hand knowledge at all)? Again, we don't know. Ineffective tactics.

Whether or not the Bohemian Grove video is false, does not lend supporting evidence to your statement regarding the alleged disrupting of lawful protests. Is it meant to support your opinion Jones is a shill, or are you raising a new issue? It would be helpful if you cleared this up.

iamfreeru2, I apologize if it seemed I was attacking you personally. I've already admitted the Bloom - Phelps video pushed my buttons, and I did come on pretty strong. I think we are in agreement in many things, and it will be a shame if we can't be friends. That was the nature of my comment about perfection, and accepting as friends people whose merits outweigh their flaws.

I hope when you cool off, you'll come back and join us. If you don't wish to pursue this debate any further, that's okay. I'm sure someone will eventually pick up the gauntlet, that is the nature of a Forum.
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iamfreeru2
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Re: Alex Jones - legitimate news, or propaganda outlet?

Post by iamfreeru2 » Thu May 30, 2013 9:22 pm

Gregory, thank you for explaining what you meant by tactics, and yes you came on strong and I took offense. I too, am sorry.

As far as the disruptions, you are correct, I should have provided a link. I came accross the one with Phelps first. I do apologize for that. One video that comes to mind is where Alex Disrupts a gun rally in Austin Texas. I will provide the link. Here is a page on youtube with various links to the Austin gun rally. If Alex is for gun rights, why did he disrupt this rally? People tried to get his attention and he completely dissed them. Listen to how he tells a lady to get out of his face.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... iu7432vRU4

Now, the link I posted in my post above talks about Leo Wanta, among many other things. Alex Jones has stated that "Leo Wanta is as real as the Easter Bunny". Alex has censored the information in that video/audio. If Alex is all about truth, then why the disruption and censorship?

Look, I want to believe Alex is all about truth. He does share a lot of truth. But he does censor and suppress.

One last comment I would like to make is, I have seen Alex totally turn people off yelling and screaming like a raving maniac. I have heard him call people f**king punks screaming and yelling at them. He professes to be a believer, a "Christian". I am not trying to judge him, as only YHWH can judge. I am told to be a fruit inspector. Does that mean I will not listen to any of the youtubes he has up with people like Eddie Craig, Chuck Baldwin, and others? Of course not, but I will not support him with funds or membership on his infowars.com.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
iamfreeru2
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Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: Alex Jones - legitimate news, or propaganda outlet?

Post by iamfreeru2 » Thu May 30, 2013 10:58 pm

I will retract my statement about the Bohemian Grove. It seems those I knew that worked there may not have been truthful with me. Maybe Alex was telling the truth that he ran out of film when he was confronted. I will keep digging for the truth. And like you Gregory, I will admit when I am wrong. However, there are still issues I have problems with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxQ9ObgeWQ8
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
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