Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

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iamfreeru2
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Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by iamfreeru2 » Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:41 am

The answer may surprise you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIPabz-01lY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIPabz-01lY
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Thomas Jeffrey
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by Thomas Jeffrey » Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:03 am

I went to the You Tube link and it was stated that "Arminian" pulpits seem to have trouble with this passage.

I'm not sure what "Arminianism" is, but I did notice that the NASV translation, being read from in the video, is what can be causing some of the confusion. The Greek word hemas means "us, we, our", but never "you".

That type of mis-translation, found in most if not all, of the modern translations causes many believers to stumble and get confused when reading scripture. Mis-translations found in some versions are so out in left field that they don't even come close to the true meaning and words of Scripture, and I'm really surprised that they would be read from any pulpits. Do a Google search for a comparison of Versions and I think you'll be surprised.

In my opinion, nothing can replace the King James Version for good solid reading and understanding of Scripture. It is the most studied and corrected version out there. What I mean by that is, the errors are so well documented that most KJV bibles list the corrections in the sidebar. Couple that with a good concordance with Hebrew and Greek lexicons, like Strong's, and you just may get as close to the original meaning and context of Scripture as if you read the original letters.

I admit that I have a New King James Version that I read a lot, but if a verse or passage doesn't seem to mesh with other passages, I dig out the old KJV and it usually falls right into place.

Many Blessings,
Thomas
iamfreeru2
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Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by iamfreeru2 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:57 am

Thank you Thomas. Many people believe this verse to be saying that YHWH wants all people to come to Him in repentance, but is that what the verse really says? What I believe the verse is saying is that YHWH wants all of His elect to come to repentance, they will, but not all paoples of the earth. I have put up other videos regarding the doctrine of election which will give clarity to what I believe the Bible teaches.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arminianism

The biggest problem I have with Arminianism is that Arminians believe man has "free will" to choose or reject YHWH. This view is not found in Scripture. I used to follow this teaching until YHWH got hold of me and the Holy Spirit led me to the truth.

I have put up other videos regarding the total depravity of man and the doctrine of election. I realize some cannot wrap their head around this, but I believe if one yields to the Holy Spirit they will realize that "free will" is a lie that Satan wants people to believe rather than the truth of YHWH's election.

BTW, I use the NASB (New American Standard Bible) and is the most literal translation. It is the Bible I prefer over the KJV, although I do use the KJV from time to time. I do believe "you" in the verse is proper usage as it does not change the meaning of the verse. Notice how 2 Peter 3 starts in verse 1 of the KJV. "This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:" It looks to me like the word "you" in 3:9 is appropriate.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Thomas Jeffrey
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Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by Thomas Jeffrey » Thu Jun 27, 2013 5:15 pm

Thanks, "Free" (I hope you don't mind the affectionate abbreviation)

I mostly agree with your main premise, and I believe it ties in with the doctrine of election which is widely misunderstood. However, what I get from this passage is that although the Messiah appears slow and "taking His sweet time" in keeping His Promise of the Second Coming, He is patient and slow in His Coming and final judgment so that all of those who are to be called will be called (There may be many more generations of Believers to come). He then reminds us that the Lord may come at any time, and to maintain all holy conversation and godliness to the end, similar to our instruction in Hebrews 12:1 to patiently run the race that is set before us.

On the subject of bible versions, I know that there are versions based on the Majority texts, and those based on the Minority texts. I prefer the KJV and NKJV because they are based on the Majority Texts. I believe that half of the confusion or misunderstanding that contemporary believers have with Scripture, can be wiped away with diligent study of bibles based on the Majority texts. There are thousands more old writings that agree with each other, which make up the Majority texts, than can be found in the Minority texts (that's why they are called Majority and Minority texts).

Minority text based bibles tend to be copyrighted material with severe misinterpretations of YHWH's intended Word. Keep in mind, in order to copyright it, the words must be changed significantly. This can severely skew the context of a given passage.

Nonetheless, I don’t believe the minority texts are in and of themselves evil, and I promise not to call anyone a heretic who wishes to read them. :D

May the Lord richly Bless you,
Thomas
iamfreeru2
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Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by iamfreeru2 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:26 pm

Thomas Jeffrey wrote:Thanks, "Free" (I hope you don't mind the affectionate abbreviation)I do not mind at all. You should hear some of the other things I have been affectionately called. LOL!!!

I mostly agree with your main premise, and I believe it ties in with the doctrine of election which is widely misunderstood. However, what I get from this passage is that although the Messiah appears slow and "taking His sweet time" in keeping His Promise of the Second Coming, He is patient and slow in His Coming and final judgment so that all of those who are to be called will be called (There may be many more generations of Believers to come). Yes, I am in agreement here. The main reason I posted what I did is because many believe (wrongly) the verse is stating YHWH wants all people to come to repentance, which is not what the verse is stating.He then reminds us that the Lord may come at any time, and to maintain all holy conversation and godliness to the end, similar to our instruction in Hebrews 12:1 to patiently run the race that is set before us.Amen!!

On the subject of bible versions, I know that there are versions based on the Majority texts, and those based on the Minority texts. I prefer the KJV and NKJV because they are based on the Majority Texts. I believe that half of the confusion or misunderstanding that contemporary believers have with Scripture, can be wiped away with diligent study of bibles based on the Majority texts. There are thousands more old writings that agree with each other, which make up the Majority texts, than can be found in the Minority texts (that's why they are called Majority and Minority texts).

Minority text based bibles tend to be copyrighted material with severe misinterpretations of YHWH's intended Word. Keep in mind, in order to copyright it, the words must be changed significantly. This can severely skew the context of a given passage.

Nonetheless, I don’t believe the minority texts are in and of themselves evil, and I promise not to call anyone a heretic who wishes to read them. :D

May the Lord richly Bless you,
I have linked an article for your consideration called “DEMYSTIFYING THE CONTROVERSY OVER THE TEXTUS RECEPTUS AND THE KING JAMES VERSION OF THE BIBLE” that addresses what you have stated about the “Majority texts” v. the “Minority texts”.

Blessings from Our Lord and Savior Yeshua the Christ to you as well brother Thomas.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Thomas Jeffrey
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by Thomas Jeffrey » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:05 am

Thanks for the link, Free. I'll check it out real soon.

I also have a link for you. I'm not a big endorser of the main site, but the Admin was kind enough to host a website by Richard Anthony, who co-authored many articles with Randy Lee and John Joseph, which contains many of the original working and final drafts of some papers found in the Christian Jural Society News and many other articles by various writers.

Please visit the Scipture and Bibles page at http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/scripture.html. There are several highly recommended articles there.

Many Blessings,
Last edited by Thomas Jeffrey on Sat Jun 29, 2013 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thomas
iamfreeru2
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Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by iamfreeru2 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:42 am

Thomas Jeffrey wrote:Please visit the Scipture and Bibles page at http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/scripture.html. There are several highly recommended articles there.



Many Blessings,
Yes, brother Thomas, thank you. I have been there before, although it has been some time ago. I will check it out again as something may have changed or I just need a refresher of what I read in the past. ;)
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
iamfreeru2
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by iamfreeru2 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:57 am

Brother Thomas, after going to the site you linked and clicking on some of the links there, yes I remember now. A friend of mine and I were having a discussion on how certain Bibles have been corrupted and he sent me there. I have to tell you I do not get hung up on KJV is the only version that is accurate and is why I linked the article I did. The KJV has its own set of problems. I believe you will understand once you have read the article.

Blessings :)
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
Thomas Jeffrey
Posts: 95
Joined: Wed May 08, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by Thomas Jeffrey » Fri Jun 28, 2013 3:20 am

I agree, Michael, the KJV does have its flaws and I can't say with certainty that it's the only accurate version. It's flaws are well known, thus easily worked through. But I also rely heavily on Strong's Concordance with Hebrew & Greek Lexicons. I also have a copy of the Septuagint with Apocrypha by Brenton and Baker's Greek/English Interlinear New Testament. I use all of them for study.

I know my bible pretty well, and the lessons and doctrine contained in it. In discussions with other people about various passages, I sometimes get confused on where they are coming from, or in other words, "what book are you reading?" I really believe that some versions have corrupted the meaning behind many of the passages. Otherwise, how can so many Christians be so off base with simple doctrine? We can all realize how the changing or omitting of a word here and there can completely change the context or meaning of a sentence. Federal, State, and local laws are changed all the time like this.

But, perhaps a lot of it is just laziness regarding study. Perhaps a lot of Christians I talk to are just listening to their pastors who are preaching the same misinformation they learned from someone else, and are too lazy to do their own studying to prove what they are hearing is true. I'm was born a skeptic, praise God, and rarely believe anything without a little study first. Especially when it comes to Scripture.

Whatever the case, until convinced otherwise, I prefer the time tested, most quoted, most widely sold version available today. The KJV. But I will check out the link that you posted, and Lord willing, will let you know if it softens me up a little about the Minority texts. (I'm sure it gives a compelling argument.) :)

May the Lord richly Bless you,
Thomas
iamfreeru2
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Re: Who is "you" or "us" in 2 peter 3:9

Post by iamfreeru2 » Fri Jun 28, 2013 1:37 pm

Brother Thomas, you and I are on the same page. What I am interested in is YHWH's truth, not my own. Many people say there is more than one way to YHWH, and of course, you and I both know this to be false teaching. I had told you I prefer the NASB, and still do. Does that mean I use no other version like the KJV or that I do not get help from other sources, not at all. I too use Strong's, Interlinear New Testament, Septuagint, as well.

Yes, there are many mistranslations and we must be careful. Some are not what I would even consider Scripture or that they come from a Christian source. I used to just listen to the pastors from the pulpit myself until YHWH got hold of me. I started to realize these pastors were not teaching the truth of Scripture, yet when I brought this to their attention they totally ignored what the truth of YHWH's word had to say. At that point I left the organized "church" and what it taught. That is not to say that all pastors get it wrong all of the time, they don't. It just means I am very careful about the message I receive. I do not always agree with John MacArthur, John Weaver, John Piper, but there are many messages they teach that I totally agree with. This is because of my own study in the Scriptures.

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." KJV
You will notice in my posts I do not just quote from one Bible, but sometimes two or more.

Have a blessed day in Yeshua
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
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