The fight against Newspeak

[Firestarter]

Hello, to be honest, I don't understand what you want to convey to us?

The one you point to as the Greek god Dionysus isn't quite that name, it's just not there. This is a fake from Italy, and scientists have not recognized it as an ancient Roman artifact for a long time.

Are you trolling me?!? Another liar posting as Veritas?!?
"Your" article's main argument that it is a fake, is some "expert" opinion, while the expert's arguments that it is a fake are missing.
So why would anybody believe this?!?

Other than that the 2 images from your link that are "fake" aren't the same as the one I posted earlier...

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The Bull Son was the centre of the Shaivite-Bull Cult and variously known as Marduk (in Babylonia), Zagreus-Dionysus (Greece), Ptah-Osiris (Egypt) and the horned Pashupati (of the Indus Valley in India). Pashupati has been called an early form of (the Hindu) Lord Shiva or his son, Murugan (a Neolithic "Green Man").

See the crucified Dionysus with the 7 Pleiades overhead.

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Obviously "your" article is trying to debunk a controversial book that claims that "Jesus Christ" from the New Testament was a reconstruction of the myth of Osiris-Dionysus, using arguments against its front cover...

Osiris-Dionysus is God made flesh, the savior and "Son of God."
His father is God and his mother is a mortal virgin, 7 month pregnancy.
He is born in a cave or humble cowshed on 25 December before three shepherds.
He offers his followers the chance to be born again through the rites of baptism.

He miraculously turns water into wine at a marriage ceremony.
He rides triumphantly into town on a donkey while people wave palm leaves to honor him.
He dies at Eastertime as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.

After his death he descends to hell, then on the third day he rises from the dead and ascends to heaven in glory.
His followers await his return as the judge during the Last Days.
His death and resurrection are celebrated by a ritual meal of bread and wine, which symbolize his body and blood.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Jesus_Mysteries

[notmartha]

Hello, I think you need to be more careful when touching ancient artifacts. The one you point to as the Greek god Dionysus isn't quite that name, it's just not there. This is a fake from Italy, and scientists have not recognized it as an ancient Roman artifact for a long time. As for the fakes, the Jews strenuously tried to call the Greeks into the witnesses of the greatness of their religion. He wrote texts posing as Greeks and forged words in ancient Greek texts. I will not dwell on this for a long time, it is clear that you have no historical education and you easily follow what is written in the tabloid press as far as history is concerned. In your other posts you are very sharp, sharp and your observations of corruption leave an impression. If you have read about the golden verses of the Orphics, then they are also a Christian forgery. Here is the text, if you are interested, then read it. GOOD LUCK AND HEALTH TO YOU IN EVERYTHING!

http://www.bede.org.uk/orpheus.htm

Could you kindly quote specifically what post you take issue with, along with your evidence that it is incorrect. Thank you.

[veritas]

I didn't expect such zeal from you, who do you call a liar if you deny that what you yourself published. What is written in the pictures, they are the same, in yours just the letters are upside down ??? Can you read Greek?

[veritas]

See the crucified Dionysus with the 7 Pleiades overhead. This is not Dionysus and this is a complete fake.

[veritas]

So the stone was met with some doubts, and to this day the matter has been surrounded by controversy. Are we dealing with a genuine piece from late Antiquity or with a forgery from the seventeenth or eighteenth century? It is presumed that the object’s ultimate disappearance was precipitated by the doubts concerning its authenticity insofar, as the prevailing controversy had been the reason for its removal from the exhibition. We would surely recover from the loss of a forgery, but if it was a genuine piece, we would have lost something unique. In any case, the controversy persists: Although Mastrocinque had painstakingly refuted the arguments made against its authenticity by Zahn, Reil and Maser, and even * © Copyright 2008 Carotta F (revised: 2009/10). The authors express their gratitude to Erika Simon for her corrections and helpful suggestions. Originally published as: Carotta F with Eickenberg A. 2009. “Orfeo Báquico – La Cruz Desaparecida”. Isidorianum 18 (35). 179–217 (for the printed publication cp. also the errata corrige). 1 Leclercq 1907–53, 12.2754 (9249) s.v. “Orphée”, 6.840 (177) s.v. “Gemmes”. Cf. Dölger 1910, 1.324. 2 Mastrocinque 1993, 16–24; pro: M. Herrero de Jáuregui, Tradición órfica y cristianismo antiguo, Madrid 2007. FRANCESCO CAROTTA ET AL. 2 had provided two cognate carnelians bearing a very similar inscription, Spier relegated the artefact to the “forgeries, and uncertain works”. In order to make his evaluation appear more credible, he declared other pieces as forgeries too, namely all those, which feature either the same posture of the legs, or those which are presented slightly rotated in a three-dimensional perspective, or else bear the same inscription—the relegation of the latter being based solely on a memorandum by a colleague of his from Saint Petersburg, who had informed him that he felt (sic!) that a similar carnelian, which apparently exists in Russia, was not ancient. This is accompanied by other, even more grotesque arguments: Since for example the gem is wrought flawlessly, which alone would be an obvious characteristic of a genuine ancient artefact, it is a fortiori supposed to be a forgery, because forgers tend to work well (sic!). A hyperbolic doubt, but in itself surely not unreasonable. When scholars in the midseventeenth century initiated the discussion of the magical gems, which had been a popular type from the second to the fourth century, trade began to flourish, and newly produced amulets in the ancient tradition were circulated, especially as a motivic supplement to preexisting collections. Since the meaning of the stones, in particular the secrets of the “Gnostic abraxas” (magical gems), could barely be ascertained, the aesthetic forms were preferred. As a consequence a strong skepticism dominated, further strengthened by the forger problem, which was hard to overcome. On the other hand Adolf Furtwängler and Colin G. King called upon future researchers to seek an enhanced understanding of antiquity by investigating these small and still insufficiently examined works of art. https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/O ... 226e3f7d6d

[veritas]

It's a modern fake of a late Roman magical amulet syncretising a medieval image of Jesus with an inscription of Orpheos Bakkikos, the Baccic Orpheus. This particular image is a computer generated image of a black and white sketch of the lost original designed for the cover of a crackpot "Jesus mythicist" book peddling absurd claims. There is no evidence that Orpheus was ever originally depicted as crucified.

[Firestarter]

Could you kindly quote specifically what post you take issue with, along with your evidence that it is incorrect. Thank you.

I'm glad you're still here. I don't believe that this Veritas is honest. It doesn't make sense to link to a not very convincing article that one of the images I posted in my "Green Man" post is a forgery.
In retrospect I wish that I had posted images of the Green Man instead of this image of the crucified Dionysus, as King Charles has now confirmed that he sees himself as the reincarnation of the Green Man: https://www.lawfulpath.com/forum/viewto ... 641#p81641

6th-century Byzantine mosaic of the Green Man in a museum in Istanbul.


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Obviously "your" article is trying to debunk a controversial book that claims that "Jesus Christ" from the New Testament was a reconstruction of the myth of Osiris-Dionysus, using arguments against its front cover...

I guess that the reason this Veritas posted this link is to bait me into posting about a flawed book, which could then be used to discredit me (and this topic)...
Maybe stupid to waste my time on this, but I found a freely viewable version of this book. The book argues that because there are so many similarities between certain pagan myths and the "Jesus Christ" of the New Testament there was never any Man on which these stories are based. I'm not saying that all the presented pagan examples similar to "Jesus" are factual or that there was no Joshua of Nazareth on which "Jesus" in part was based, but this would fit in this thread...

They even give summary of the role of Roman Emperor Constantine in the foundation of Christianity and Bible as the "Word of God".
With an interesting description of Pontius Pilate, which I see as an example of history falsification by the Roman propaganda circus to whitewash this psychopath.

The ludicrous nature of what passed for history in the early years of Christianity is graphically illustrated by the whitewashing of Pontius Pilate. This brutal Roman governor was so hated by the Jews that he had been made responsible for the saviour's death by those who had originally put the Jesus myth into an historical context. But by the second century Tertullian relates the ludicrous tale that Pilate had washed his hands of Jesus' death because 'in his secret heart' he was actually a Christian!215 According to Tertullian the earliest news of Christianity to reach Rome was a report from Pilate indicating that Christ (whom he supposedly had just executed) was indeed divine.

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Where the book goes completely wrong, is the promotion of "pagan" occult mysticism to achieve a "spiritual rebirth", or New Age theosophy (which is Satanism).
They write that early Christians were broadly in 2 categories: Literalists and Gnostics. And that these Gnostics were really enlightened masters of the Mysteries that were wiped out by the "Literalist Roman Church".
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Our desire is not to attack Christianity, but to point to the possibility of it regaining something it has lost - the Inner Mysteries which reveal the secrets of Gnosis, We do not feel that the Jesus Mysteries Thesis undermines Christianity, but rather that it reveals the ancient grandeur of the Jesus story.

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All of this doesn't make sense, as they are criticising the New Testament over its fakeness (Jesus is nothing but a myth), but promote the pagan religions that they claim inspired the mythological tales. Not to mention that Constantine was a Mithras, sun worshipper, which following their reasoning would make him a "Great" enlightened master.

They come with a supposed prediction of the New Age by Jesus Christ, which obviously doesn't make sense at all as they argue that He didn't exist in the first place.

In the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus predicts the coming apocalypse and birth of a New Age, saying, 'For nation will make war upon nation, kingdom upon kingdom; there will be famines and' earthquakes in many places. With all these things the birth-pangs of the New Age begin.'

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Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy - The Jesus Mysteries: Was the "Original Jesus" a Pagan God? (1999): https://silo.pub/the-jesus-mysteries-wa ... n-god.html

[veritas]

I respected you, I tell you honestly, but you turned out to be a small fry, an offended bank clerk, with
maniacal sense of their own originality, that is, with delusions of grandeur. No one wanted to denounce you, you just need to learn history, understand the Christian fakes with which the Jews filled Greek sources, added their own, rewrote the Greeks, spoke under Greek names and spoke supposedly on behalf of the Greeks in order to approve and cause respect from the entire scientific world to of their religion. But for this you need to spend years, there is no quick success in historical knowledge. I have read all of yours and I will not hide that you are experienced in qualifying scammers from the economy, but not history. I'm not hiding, I'm ready for an open dialogue, and you look at yourself a little from the side, who are you and what are you? What did you tell us about yours, what discovery did you make yourself?

[veritas]

And yes, you know, the swastika was invented by the Greeks, it is not a source of inspiration for many peoples, as you have had the honor to write.

[notmartha]

See the crucified Dionysus with the 7 Pleiades overhead. This is not Dionysus and this is a complete fake.

Again, please quote who you are responding to. With 11+ pages, it is hard to follow the thread without proper quotes. And please keep your posts objective, excluding personal attacks.