Carolingian dynasty and the Order of the Garter

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Re: Scythians, Aryans, Ashkenazis

Post by Firestarter »

notmartha wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:42 amWho commonly associates the Scythians with the Lost Tribes of Israel?
The (only) external link in my last post would appear to be a good place to start. Of course chapter 5 should be read in context with the rest of Livingstone's book.
Livingstone is a (converted) Muslim by the way, so it doesn't surprise me that you disagree. Earlier in this thread I have already posted a link to his book "Terrorism and the illuminati":
Firestarter wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:10 pmDavid Livingstone has a new book, website out. While I find it frustrating that the links I posted to his old website ( were taken offline, his new book is a decent collection of information…
I’ve just read the 17 chapters of Volume 1 of his new book Ordo ab chao. In my opinion Chapter 5 on the Haplogroup R1a is the most interesting. Maybe I’ll post more later from the following 6 volumes of his book (according to Livingstone himself compiled after 30 years of “research”).


notmartha wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:42 amWhat is an Ashkenazi Levite?
I've earlier posted on an article by the same scientist (if I remember correctly in your Ashkenazi thread).
Doron M. Behar et al. – Multiple Origins of Ashkenazi Levites: Y Chromosome Evidence for Both Near Eastern and European Ancestries (2003):

notmartha wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:42 amWhat "Ancient Jewish sources" say the lost 10 tribes of Israel were Scythians?

Gog and Magog are not Israelites. I'm missing the connection...

More on the Ashkenazi here: ... =23&t=1375
David Livingstone just like just about anybody else, doesn't know the definition(s) of Jews. Livingstone has obviously found sources that claim so (possibly written in support of the claim that Ashkenazis are Jews)...
In general I'm no fan of copy-pasting large excerpts from somebody else's text. The numbered references can be found at the bottom of the link.
In 721 BC, when the northern Kingdom of Israel was conquered by the Assyrians, after that time the Ten Tribes who had been living there were dispersed to land of the Medes, in Iran and Armenia, and were henceforth considered “lost.” Paradoxically, the Medes, whom Herodotus called Arian, were made out by scholars of the Enlightenment to be the ancestors of the Europeans, the pure-bred Aryans. The Medes, according to Greek mythology, were descended from Medea the Colchian witch from the story of Jason and the Argonauts and his quest for the Golden Fleece. According to the legend, Medea later married Aegeas of Athens after whom the Aegean Sea is named. And though the Medes were associated with numerous theories connected with the ancient white Aryans, according to a description by Herodotus, the Colchians who dwelt in a land located along the western slope of the Caucasus Mountains near the Black Sea, in what is now the state of Georgia, were black and probably Jewish. Like the Jews of Palestine whom he referred to as “Phoenicians,” Herodotus also regarded the people of Colchis as deriving from an “Egyptian colony.” He not only pointed to the Colchians’ “black skin and woolly hair” as evidence, but also to their oral traditions, language, methods of weaving, and practice of circumcision. Saint Jerome, writing during the fourth century AD, called Colchis the “Second Ethiopia.”[17]

Although the Ten Tribes were considered “lost,” ancient Jewish sources explained them to be the Scythians situated in Southern Russia and Central Asia.[18] According to the ancient Jewish historian Josephus, “…the Ten Tribes are beyond the Euphrates till now, and are an immense multitude, whose numbers cannot be estimated.”[19] The Scythians, a people of today’s East Ukraine to the lower Don basin, commonly associated with the Lost Tribes of Israel, were the originators of the haplogroup R-M17, also known as R1a1.[20] Josephus and others have also identified the Scythians as the descendants of Gog and Magog, among whom they would have been absorbed.[21]

In the Alexander Romance, in an account that parallels a similar one in the Quran, Alexander the Great chases his enemies to a pass between two peaks in the Caucasus. With the aid of God, Alexander and his men close the narrow pass in the Caucasus by constructing a huge wall of steel, keeping the barbarous Gog and Magog from pillaging the peaceful southern lands. The Travels of Sir John Mandeville, a travel memoir which first circulated between 1357 and 1371, explicitly associates the nations confined by Alexander with the Ten Lost Tribes. The Ten Lost Tribes had come to be identified with Gog and Magog sometime around the twelfth century, and possibly the first to do so was Petrus Comestor in his Historica Scholastica (c. 1169–1173).

In Asia, the development of the Romance was profoundly affected by the so-called Christian Legend Concerning Alexander, an apocalyptic work not known in the West, until a Syriac version was published only in recent times.[22] The contents of the legend, describing Alexander’s exploits in the land of the rising sun, are summarized in a brief introductory heading:
An exploit by Alexander, the son of Philip the Macedonian, how he went forth to the ends of the world, and made a gate of iron, and shut it in the face of the north wind, that the Huns might not come forth to spoil the countries: from the manuscripts in the house of the archives of the Kings of Alexandria.[23]

Kevin Alan Brook, among others, has speculated that the legend of the Red Jews was actually based on a vague memory of the Khazars, descendants of the Scythians who converted to Judaism in the eighth century AD. Christian of Stavelot, a ninth-century Christian monk, in Expositio in Matthaeum Evangelistam refers to the Khazars as Hunnic descendants of Gog and Magog, who had been “enclosed” by Alexander, but who had since escaped.[69] Arab traveler ibn Fadlan also reported this belief, writing around 921 AD, he recorded that “Some hold the opinion that Gog and Magog are the Khazars.”[70] Several Medieval rabbis and Jewish Torah scholars began to locate the Ten Lost Tribes, but the location greatly varied. Maimonides wrote: “…I believe the Ten Tribes to be in various parts of Europe.”[71] Moses ben Isaac Edrehi (1774–1842), a Moroccan-born rabbi and Kabbalist, also believed the Lost Tribes of Israel were located in Europe, writing in his Historical Account Of The Ten Tribes (1836):
…Orteleus, that great geographer, giving the description of Tartary, notices the kingdom of Arsareth, where the Ten Tribes, retiring, succeeded [other] Scythian inhabitants, and took the name Gauther [Goths], because they were very jealous for the glory of God. In another place, he found the Naphtalites, who had their hordes there. He also discovered the tribe of Dan in the north, which has preserved its name. …They further add, that the remains of ancient Israel were more numerous here than in Muscovy and Poland - from which it was concluded, that their habitation was fixed in Tartary [ie Scythia] from whence they passed into neighbouring places… it is no wonder to find the Ten Tribes dispersed there; since it was no great way to go from Assyria, whither they were transplanted, having only Armenia betwixt them.[72]

In the Fourth Book of Ezra, the Ten Tribes were said to have been carried by Hosea in the eighth century BC to the Euphrates, at the narrow passages of the river. From there they went on a journey of a year and a half to a place called “Arzareth,” referring to the Araxes, a river that borders Armenia, Iran and Azerbaijan. The Araxes river is related to the legend of Sambatyon, which according to rabbinic literature, is the river beyond which the Lost Tribes were exiled, observing the laws of Moses, until the time of the restoration. The river rages with rapids and throws up stones six days a week, but stops flowing every Sabbath, the day Jews are not allowed to travel. According to the twelfth century Arab historian Muhammad al-Idrisi, who lived in Palermo, at the court of King Roger II of Sicily, the city of Sarmel (Sarkel-on-the-Don) was situated on the River Al-Sabt (Sambat), which is the River Don. The name for Kiev, as given by Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus (905 – 959), is also Sambatas.[77]

Arzareth or Arsareth is likely the same as Asgard, the legendary home of the Scandinavians and Saxons. Some etymologies proposed that the word Scythians, from “Sacae,” in turn is derived from “Isaac Sons” or “Sons of Isaac.”[78] Strabo asserts that the most ancient Greek historians knew the Sacaea as a people who lived beyond the Caspian Sea. Ptolemy finds the Saxons in a race of Scythians, called Sakai, who came from Media.[79] Pliny said: “The Sakai were among the most distinguished people of Scythia, who settled in Armenia, and were called Sacae-Sani.”[80] Albinus, the learned tutor of Charlemagne, maintained that: “The Saxons were descended from the ancient Sacae of Asia.”[81]
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Gunpowder Plot false flag (1605)

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Firestarter wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:10 pmDavid Livingstone has a new book, website out. While I find it frustrating that the links I posted to his old website ( were taken offline, his new book is a decent collection of information…
A flaw in his book is that Livingstone argues that Ashkenazi “Jews” are really Israelites (which according to him are Jews), while at the same time using the sources that the Khazars (Ashkenazis) were really a Turkish tribe to argue something else. This looks like a dubious strategy to me, cherry picking from contradictory sources to argue your point.

A more important flaw in his book is that I can’t follow the main point(s) he’s trying to make. For this reason the sum isn’t greater than its parts (separate chapters can be read separately just as well) and I lost interest by the time I reached Volume 3.

There are some recurring themes, mentioned in several chapters, but as I don’t understand the context, the book never becomes more than a collection of information. The recurring themes include:
Jews and crypto-Jews;

Only by the time I reached Volume 6, I got interested again. This part doesn’t fit in with the rest of the book, and is mostly about Donald Trump:

As there is so much information in this part of his site that I’ve previously posted about, even using the same photos, I think that Livingstone has been using information from my (admittedly) good thread on Donald Trump: ... 4872#p4872

In 1605, English King James I's spymaster, Robert Cecil (Earl of Salisbury, KG in 1606) staged the Gunpowder Plot to discredit Catholics and unify England and Scotland to create the United Kingdom.

See a picture of the patsies, including Guy Fawkes, Catesby, Percy and Tresham.

In the months before Queen Elizabeth's death on 24 March 1603, English Secretary of State Robert Cecil, secretly negotiated with King James VI of Scotland, so he could succeed Elizabeth.

In 1604, Robert Cecil blackmailed Robert Catesby to organise this false flag that involved (not) blowing up British parliament on 5 November 1605 (and kill King James and as many MP’s as possible).
Robert Catesby's servant on his death-bed said that Robert Cecil and Catesby met 3 times shortly before 5 November 1605.

At the Duck and Drake Inn, Catesby explained Cecil’s plan to Guy Fawkes, Thomas Percy (another agent of the British government), John Wright and Thomas Wintour.
In the following months, they were joined by Francis Tresham (also a British agent), Everard Digby, Robert Wintour, Thomas Bates and Christopher Wright.

Guy Fawkes was a guest at the wedding of Cecil's niece, along with Cecil AND King James!
Immediately prior to 5 November 1605, Thomas Percy visited the house of Robert Cecil.

After the plot was “discovered”, on 8 November 1605 government troops arrived at the Holbeche House in Staffordshire to shoot and kill the patsies Robert Catesby, Thomas Percy, Christopher Wright and John Wright that were gathered there.
Digby, Robert Wintour, Thomas Wintour, Bates and Fawkes were tortured into signing confessions and in January 1606, after being sentenced to death, were executed by hanging.
Dead men tell no tales...

Francis Edwards in his book “The Gunpowder Plot: The Narrative of Oswald Tessimond”, claims that Francis Tesham escaped from the Tower of London, probably with government aide, went abroad, and changed his name to Matthew Bruninge.

R. Crampton, in his book The Gunpowder Plot (1990) wrote:
If Guy Fawkes case came up before the Court of Appeal today, the… judges would surely… acquit him…

…no-one has ever seen the attempted tunnel. Builders excavating the area in 1823 found neither a tunnel nor any rubble.

Secondly, the gunpowder… In 1605, the Government had a monopoly on its manufacture… The Government did not display the gunpowder and nobody saw it in the cellars.

Thirdly, these cellars were rented by the government to a known Catholic agitator…

Fourthly, the Tresham letter… Graphologists [handwriting experts] agree that it was not written by Francis Tresham...

Guy Fawkes was at a wedding of Cecil’s niece, along with Cecil AND King James.
…Why didn’t Fawkes kill the King there, and isn’t it mysterious that all figures in the plot went to a wedding together? ... plot-1605/

The Catholics themselves suspected foul play:
Lord Castlemaine tells us that “the Catholics of England, who knew Cecil’s ways of acting and their own innocence, [Pg 49] suspected him from the beginning, as hundreds still alive can testify.

Father John Gerard, who was not only a contemporary, but one of those accused of complicity, intimates his utter disbelief of the official narrative concerning the discovery, and his conviction that those who had the scanning of the redoubtable letter were “well able in shorter time and with fewer doubts to decipher a darker riddle and find out a greater secret than that matter was.
The Powder Treason.—Propounded by Satan: Approved by Antichrist [i.e. the Pope]: Enterprised by Papists: Practized by Traitors: Revealed by an Eagle [Monteagle]: Expounded by an Oracle [King James]: Founded in Hell: Confounded in Heaven.
Note the “Honi soit qui mal y pense” at the bottom left...

Supposedly the conspirators obtained 72 barrels of gunpowder, each containing 90 kg (200 lbs), and stored them in a cellar, right under the House of Lords. Copious evidence was compiled of the plotters’ movements, lodgings, associates, porters, carpenters, boatmen, swordhilts engraved, hats purchased and the iron bars laid atop the barrels to maximise their destructive capacity, but nothing on the gunpowder...
The “cellar” was not a cellar at all but was at ground level.
The mine/tunnel to the Parliament has never been found.

According to The Debenture Book:
From the Parliament Howse Septimo die Novembris 1605 anno Regni Regis Jacobi tertio Receaved into his Majesty’s Store within The office of The ordenaunce from out of the vault undernethe the Parliament howse Come powder xviii hundred weight decaied which was there laide and placed for the blowing up of the said howse and destruction of the kings Majestie, the nobilitie and Commonalitie there assembled. Receaved as aforesaid Corne powder decaied: xviii hundred weight.
After the first 36 barrels of gunpowder had been left in the cellar for 8 months, the “Corne powder” was “decaied”, which means it was separated into its 3 components and/or decayed by damp, which would make it unusable.
Of course since then it has been “proven” that the gunpowder could’ve been used...

It doesn’t seem possible that transporting the gunpowder, digging the tunnel and getting rid of the mass of soil dug out went unnoticed by both the government (especially by “suspicious” Catholics) and the entire neighbourhood, thickly clustered as it was with the dwellings of numerous officials.

The following anonymous letter to William Parker, 4th Baron Monteagle, was instrumental in revealing the plot. Its author's identity has never been established, some of the suspects include Francis Tresham, Monteagle and Robert Cecil...
My lord out of the love i beare to some of youere frends i have a caer of youer preseruacion therfor i would advyse yowe as yowe tender youer lyf to devys some excuse to shift of youer attendance at this parleament for god and man hath concurred to punishe the wickednes of this tyme and think not slightlye of this advertisment but retyre youre self into youre contri wheare yowe may expect the event in safti for thowghe theare be no apparence of anni stir yet i saye they shall receyve a terrible blowe this parleament and yet they shall not seie who hurts them this cowncel is not to be contemned because it maye do yowe good and can do yowe no harme for the dangere is passed as soon as yowe have burnt the letter and i hope god will give yowe the grace to mak good use of it to whose holy proteccion i comend yowe
After Fawkes was arrested on the eve of 4 November 1605, it took the authorities 3 days, to identify the other 8 “conspirators”, Percy, Catesby, Rokewood, Winter, Grant, John and Christopher Wright and Ashfield (Catesby’s servant) to issue an arrest warrant on 7 November.
This is despite the fact that Fawkes only revealed the names of his fellow plotters, 2 days later on 9 November after he was put to “gentler tortures”: ... annequins/
( ... annequins/)
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Fritz Springmeier

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Firestarter wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 4:57 pmI´m no fan of Fritz Springmeier, but the following excerpts from Bloodlines of the illuminati on the Drexel family are interesting: ... minati.pdf
I’ve earlier posted a link to a book by Fritz Springmeier in this thread. I’ve read another book by Springmeier that is interesting as an opinion piece but as a book on “history” is worthless, because it’s a mixture of truth and fiction.

Springmeier uses information from dubious sources, like for example the “The Holy Blood and the Holy grail” book from which he argues that the Prieure de Sion is a very important secret society involved in controlling the world…

Fritz Springmeier – Wise as Serpents, Gentle as Doves (1991) – 11.6 MB - ... rpents.pdf

My reason for making this post about Springmeier isn’t his flawed book, but that he was locked up in prison in what looks like trumped up charges (was he threatening to expose 9/11 for the false flag it was?).
The following wasn’t written by a Fritz Springmeier or Alex Jones fan, with interesting information on his arrest “under very doubtful circumstances”...

First they arrested Springmeier for growing of marijuana, but when they couldn’t get him sentenced for that case, they imprisoned him for bank robbery. In 2003, Springmeier was sentenced to 51 months in prison for armed robbery and another 60 months on aiding and abetting for his involvement in a robbery in which a bomb was set off, in Damascus, Oregon in 1997.
Springmeier was sentenced based on the testimony of one of the bank robbers, Anthony Huntington, who got a reduced sentence for claimed that Springmeier helped in planning the event.

Anthony Huntington was already released in 2005.
Batemen pled guilty and was sentenced to 9 years in prison.
After Springmeier was released in 2010, he was again imprisoned in January 2011 for another 3 months.

Springmeier claims that he was framed and totally innocent: ... soner.html
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Re: Dragon society

Post by Firestarter »

Dean Henderson’s blogspot was (also) deleted by Wordpress. Are “good” blogs in violation of Wordpress’s policy?!?
I didn’t even know that Henderson also wrote about the “Nephilim bloodline”, and while I don’t take anybody posting on those “bloodlines” completely serious who doesn’t explain the Carolingian dynasty, it’s interesting nonetheless…

For at least 8,000 years humanity has been enslaved, abused and genocided by a small but ruthless group of Annunaki, which according to Henderson are “most accurately” called the Nephilim (or fallen angels) from the Bible.
Henderson, following David Icke, calls them planetary interlopers (aliens), and says that their modern-day equivalent could very well be artificial intelligence. Because the royal blood (Sangreal or Holy Grail) is different from that of human beings, royals are considered “blue bloods”.

The truth behind the creation story in Genesis is that it describes the mating of the Nephilim with Eve to produce the hybrid Cain bloodline.
Tempting Eve and Adam to eat from the Tree of Knowledge is symbolised in the logo of Apple Computer by taking a bite out of an apple.

This ruthless Cain hybrid bloodline was known as the Canaanites, the Tribe of Dan, the Egyptian pharaohs, and the builders of the Holy Roman Empire.
They are now called the royal and Black Nobility families, who Henderson collectively calls the “Nephilim Crown”.

To prevent exposure, the Nephilim often use the court Jews (hofjuden) for scapegoats.
When things get real dicey, the bloodlines use the Rothschild family to divert the criticism.

The world’s secret societies guard the “secret” 7 sacred sciences that the “Nephilim Crown” uses to manipulate humanity – grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy.
They will lead us to a One World Government led by an “anti-Christ King” in Jerusalem. It will culminate with a “microchip Mark of the Beast”.

People without the “microchip” will be prohibited to buy or sell in the “Babylon system”. Currently they are working hard on a coronavirus vaccine “sign” to be implemented below the skin (courtesy of the Jeffrey Epstein affiliated Bill Gates and MIT)...
The very future of humanity is at stake: ... apocalypse
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Re: Dragon society

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I’ve earlier posted on the War of the Roses: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1093&start=50#p6366

The end of this war is filled with interesting “conspiracy theories” and speculation.
The first is that King Edward IV of England (of the House of York) was illegitimate as his mother, the Duchess of York, had an affair while his father Richard was away fighting in France.
I don’t find this very convincing (and have found no evidence of this): ... dIV_01.htm

In the light of what happened later this isn’t even important.
After Edward IV died on 9 April 1483, the line of descent passed to his eldest son who would be crowned King Edward V of England at only 12 years of age.

Edward IV’s younger brother Richard Duke of Gloucester became Lord Protector of the realm, to take care of and look over King Edward V and his younger brother Richard, Duke of York.
The 2 princes, Edward V and (also) Richard were never seen again. It seems probable that they were killed at the orders of Richard, who was crowned King Richard III on 6 July 1483.

The most famous tale of this history was written by Shakespeare.
Before Richard III received his crown, he had annulled the marriage of the parents by declaring it bigamous. So poor Edward V and the young Richard were made officially illegitimate: ... the-tower/

In August 1485, Richard III died in a battle against Henry Tudor at Bosworth Field. The bastard Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham, then became (the first Tudor) King Henry VII, which marked the end of the “War of the Roses” – since then all English Kings are illegitimate.

King Henry VII had no genuine claim to the throne by descend.
Henry could only claim the throne through his mother, Lady Margaret Beaufort, who was a great-granddaughter of John of Gaunt, the Duke of Lancaster and fourth son of Edward III, and his third wife Katherine Swynford.
The ancestor through which Henry could claim the throne, his great-grandfather John Beaufort, was born when John of Gaunt wasn’t yet married to Swynford, which made Beaufort illegitimate.

The Tudor family had come to prominence in Wales through service to 3 princes of the Gwynedd family as councillors, diplomats, and soldiers.
Most of the Tudors had supported Owain Glyndwr in his uprising with the English. Owain was married to the widow of King Henry V, Katherine of Valois. King Henry VI had an excellent relationship with his Welsh stepfather Owain Glyndwr.
The eldest son of Glyndwr and Valois, Henry VI’s stepbrother Edmund married Margaret Beaufort in 1455, who gave birth to Henry in the same year.

Henry made the unprecedented move of proclaiming himself the rightful heir to the throne even before he was crowned: ... iis-reign/

Henry VII’s mother, Lady Margaret Beaufort, was only 13 years old when he was born and already the widowed of Edmund Tudor, the Earl of Richmond, who died in Yorkist captivity 3 months before Henry’s birth.

Within the first 2 years of Henry VII’s reign alone, he spent a whopping £3 million on new clothes.

Henry VII had significant gambling debts to household members, and even a sizable card-playing debt to his own son, seven-year-old Prince Henry.

After in 1483, Richard III became King when his nephews were missing, enough of old King Edward IV’s in-laws, the Woodvilles, now side against Richard III with Henry Tudor.

Henry VII’s tried to increase legitimacy to the crown of England by marrying Elizabeth of York (the oldest living child of the late Edward IV), which required 3 Papal dispensations because they were double cousins by the fourth degree: ... r-dynasty/

Even stronger evidence that the British Royals are illegitimate bastards...
DNA analysis shows that Richard III didn’t descend from King Edward III.

There are stories that Henry's ancestor John of Gaunt was not only illegitimate (which is undeniable) but not even the son of Edward III, who wasn’t present at his birth.
Prof Schurer commented:
Hypothetically speaking, if John of Gaunt wasn't Edward III's son, it would have meant that (his son) Henry IV had no legitimate claim to the throne, nor Henry V, nor Henry VI.
( ... t-30281333)
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Re: Dragon society

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From 1521 to 1546 a series of wars were staged between Knights of the Garter: 1) Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (KG c. 1508) and 2) King of France Francis I (KG 1527).
At the time much of France was encircled by the Holy Roman Empire.

In 1520, Charles visited England to his aunt Catherine of Aragon and her husband King Henry VIII of England.
See Henry VIII with Charles V (right) and Pope Leo X (centre), c. 1520, with the slain dragon.

In 1521, the first war between Charles V and Francis I was started.
Charles V was supported by England and Pope Leo X, while Frances I got help from Venice. Charles V drove the French out of Milan and captured Francis at the Battle of Pavia in 1525, who was released to continue the wars...

France joined the League of Cognac that Pope Clement VII had formed with Henry VIII of England, the Venetians, the Florentines, and the Milanese to resist imperial domination of Italy.
In the following War of the League of Cognac (1526–30), Charles V in 1527 virtually imprisoned Pope Clement VII to prevent the Pope from annulling the marriage of Henry VIII to Charles's aunt Catherine of Aragon.

It was only some time later that Henry VIII formally broke with Rome (which led to the English Reformation): ... an_Emperor

See the Garter stall plate of Charles V in Saint George's Chapel.

Another Italian War from 1536–1538 between Charles V and Francis I.
In this war Francis I was joined by Knights of the Garter:

Anne de Montmorency, Duc de Montmorency (KG in 1532 and Order of Saint Michael)
Philippe de Chabot, Comte de Neublanche (KG in 1532 and Order of Saint Michael): ... %80%931538

The Italian War from 1542–1546 between Charles V and Francis I.
In this war Charles V was joined by Knights of the Garter:

Henry VIII, King of England (KG in 1495 and Order of the Golden Fleece since 1505)
Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk (KG in 1510)
Charles Brandon, 1st Duke of Suffolk (KG in 1513)
John Dudley, 1st Duke of Northumberland (KG in 1543): ... %80%931546
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Venice, Rosicrucians, Freemasonry

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Now this is strange, in this thread I've traced the "new world order" back to the Carolingians, Order of the Garter and the Venetian black Nobility. Now the following article (again from Lyndon LaRouche's network) connects all these dots, but not like I pictured...
This post is mostly about the origins of Freemasonry, founded in the 17th century, when Amsterdam was the opium and money centre of the "civilised" world.

In the 9th century, King Pepin of Italy, son of Charlemagne King of the Franks, tried unsuccessfully to conquer Charlemagne's enemy Venice.
This of course doesn't mean that Venice was still the enemy of the Carolingians in the 13th and following centuries, but that is apparently the conclusion of the Larouchians.

In the 13th century, the Venetians were at their top of military power and aimed to create a new Roman Empire with Venice at its centre . They expanded into the Italian mainland, Greek islands, and the Black Sea. They helped to defeat the Hohenstaufen rulers of Germany and Italy.
Venetian intelligence assisted Genghis Khan in his brutal campaign against powers that resisted Venice.
Later, after a series of wars Venice and Genoa joined forces.

The Venetian bankers (a.k.a. Lombards) looted Europe through usurious loans. In the years after 1255, Henry III of England became insolvent after getting Lombard loans at 120-180% interest to fight foreign wars . These loans started the Venetian Party in England.
When the Lombard bankers went bankrupt because the English didn't pay, a collapse of the European economy followed and the Black Plague that depopulated the continent. In the midst of the chaos, the Venetians encouraged their ally Edward III of England, to wage war against France (the Hundred Years War 1339-1453), and found the Most Noble Order of the Garter (around 1348).

While Venice had always been the enemies of science, Paolo Sarpi realised that the Venetians must now present themselves as the great champions of science, to seize control, corrupt and ultimately destroy the scientific community from the inside, through Aristotelian formalism and sense certainty.

Sarpi sponsored and directed the career of Galileo Galilei, who was used for a counterattack against the Platonic method of Johannes Kepler.
The supposed founder of Physics, Isaac Newton’s main interest was alchemy. His sources were kooks like Elias Ashmole, the Rosicrucian leader of British speculative Freemasonry: ... enice.html

The following has more information on how the Venetians created Freemasonry in England.
In 1616, the Protestant-Anglican royal marriage of James I's daughter to the Elector of Palatine was the talk of England. For Venice, a significant counterweight to the Habsburgs.

Also in 1616, the first Rosicrucian tract - the "Fama'' - is written, calling for the formation of a Brotherhood of the Rosy Cross. It is not too distant from what Sarpi's friend, Francis Bacon, is calling for. Shortly thereafter, another Rosicrucian document - the "Confession'' - is published.
Both written in German and circulated in the territory of the Elector of Palatine.

This is followed by several other Rosicrucian documents, all claiming to have solved the riddle of the relationship between the microcosm and the macrocosm.
One of these books was written by Robert Fludd, who is attacked by Kepler as a mystic who uses numbers as a form of cabalistic symbolism.

The beginning of the Long Parliament and a series of meetings in England, in 1640, led to the creation of the British Royal Society. Robert Moray in Edinburgh in 1641 is the first recorded induction into the Freemasons, quickly followed by Elias Ashmole. Both Ashmole and Moray were founding members of the British Royal Society.
The other major explicitly Rosicrucian figure was Isaac Newton, who had copies of both the Fama and the Confessio in his library.

Historian Frances Yates quotes one De Quincey:
Freemasonry is neither more nor less than Rosicrucianism as modified by those who transplanted it in England, whence it was re-exported to the other countries of Europe.
An announcement for one of the Freemason meetings in 1676 reads:
To give notice that the Modern Green-ribboned Cabal, together with the ancient brotherhood of the Rosy Cross: the Hermetic Adepti and the company of Accepted Masons...

The last is a much longer article, whose main value for me is that it doesn't come from LaRouche, and independently confirms the LaRouche information...

According to John Robinson, all of the original members of the Royal Society were Freemasons, with Rosicrucian elements.

Metaphorically Rosicrucians were Rose Cross men - men who used Bacon's discovery device (which has a compass design in the plays) to make the metaphoric voyage beyond the pillars of Hercules in search of the New World of the sciences.
Freemasonry society. In Bacon's time it was a true secret society.

The Temple of Solomon of Freemasonry is a model of the universe. The compass with the Rosicrucian rose is a metaphoric model of the world. Both are built into the First Folio, with its design of the 32 directions of the compass, and the 36 decans of the zodiac.

The Rosicrucian Fraternity was designed as a metaphoric complement to the Freemason Society (or vice versa).
There is a close affinity with the New Atlantis - the land of the Rosicrucians:
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Franklin & Washington - British agents

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In 1730 or 1731, Benjamin Franklin was initiated into the local Masonic lodge. Since then, Franklin in his articles for the Gazette praised Freemasonry in America. These writings are sometimes referred to as the beginning of Freemasonry in the USA.
Franklin remained a Freemason for the rest of his life.

See Benjamin Franklin pictured as a freemason (at the Loge des Neuf Soeurs in Paris?).

In 1734, Benjamin Franklin became a grand master in Pennsylvania, and published the first Masonic book in the Americas (James Anderson's Constitutions of the Free-Masons).
From 1735 to 1738, Franklin was secretary of St. John's Lodge in Philadelphia.

In 1760, Benjamin Franklin was elected as Provincial Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England.
When Franklin was sent to France as an ambassador for the US, he became affiliated with the French Masonic Lodges. In 1777, he entered the “Loge des Neuf Soeurs” of Paris, and in 1778 assisted in Voltaire’s initiation into this lodge: ... ng-father/

There are several reasons to suspect that "hero" of the American War for Independence, Benjamin Franklin was a British double agent all along.

From the mid 1750s to the mid 1770s, Benjamin Franklin spent much time in London, meeting the English elite, and even went to meetings of Sir Francis Dashwood‘s notorious Hellfire Club. Records of membership of the Hellfire Club were burned in 1774, so it isn't certain that Franklin was also a member.
The Hellfire Club's members were known as the Knights of St. Francis of Wycombe. British Intelligence also held meetings at the same Wycombe where Hellfire came together.

Francis Dashwood was educated at Eton College where he became associated with William Pitt the Elder (whose son John Pitt, 2nd Earl of Chatham became a KG in 1790). Pitt and John Montagu, 4th Earl of Sandwich (whose family counts many Knights of the Garter) were also accused to have been members of a Hellfire Club (that met at the George and Vulture Inn throughout the 1730s).
Francis Dashwood later became British Chancellor of the Exchequer and Postmaster General.

Toward the middle of the nineteenth century, Lord le Despencer’s illegitimate daughter, Rachel Antonina Lee, claimed that her father would often raise a toast to "Brother Benjamin of Cookham, who remained our friend and secret ally all the time he was in the enemy camp".
Rachel explained that "Brother Benjamin" was Franklin, who "sent intelligence to London by devious routes, through Ireland, by courier from France and through a number of noble personages in various country houses".

During the war, Franklin continued to correspond with his associates in England, including Lord Shelburne (KG in 1782), Thomas Walpole (whose uncle Robert Walpole became a KG in 1726), Lord Camden (which one?), Thomas Wharton and John Williams.
Comte de Vergennes' plans for war with England were frustrated because every move by the Americans in Paris was known to the English Ambassador, Lord Stormont. This wasn't very surprising because inside the US Embassy was a cell of British Intelligence, organised by the Ambassador’s chief assistant Edward Bancroft (who King George III referred to as a double agent).
For some reason Franklin refused to investigate espionage charges against Bancroft and instead brought charges against the man who had accused Bancroft.

Benjamin Franklin became part of the British Royal Society in 1756.
Franklin was also honoured by the Universities of Yale, Harvard, Oxford and Edinburgh: ... nklin.html

Another freemason that became a "hero" of the American revolution is George Washington (US president 1789–1797).
It isn't really secret, but it could come as quite a shock to learn that through the War of Independence, George Washington was a shareholder in the privately owned British central bank, Bank of England!

The Continental Congress selected Washington as the commander-in-chief of the armed forces. As an appointed military officer, he held an “office ... under the United States” and could not “accept of any ... emolument” from a “foreign State”.
In other words, General Washington wasn't allowed to accept a “profit, gain, or advantage” from a “foreign state-chartered ... company”, like the Bank of England: ... nk-of.html

George Washington became "America's first spymaster" when he directed Major Benjamin Tallmadge to form the Culper Ring to covertly collect information about the British in New York in 1778.
Maybe to help the British?!?

During mid-1780, Benedict Arnold started giving secret information to the head of British Secret Service in America John André.
After he had become a British double agent, Washington made Arnold commander of West Point even though he knew of several incidents of disloyalty by Benedict Arnold. After he was given command, on 21 September, Arnold met André to dicuss plans to take over West Point.

On 23 September 1780, André was captured by the American armed forces, who discovered the plans.
Lieutenant Colonel John Jameson sent General George Washington the plans he carried with him (written by Benedict Arnold). Because he wanted Arnold to escape he insisted on sending a warning note to Arnold, so he could escape to the British.

André was sentenced to death for espionage, but Washington tried to exchange him for Arnold with the British. André was hanged on 2 October 1780.
Maybe André was simply set up, because he had trashed Benjamin Franklin's house in Philadelphia, when it was occupied by the British. Or maybe he had found out some secrets about Franklin he shouldn't have:

The London-educated lawyer Joseph Reed, who was adjutant general on Washington’s staff, complained to the army’s second-ranking officer, Maj. Gen. Charles Lee, about George Washington's failings as commander in chief: ... 180958786/
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Ashmole - The Institution of the Order of the Garter

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Firestarter wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:36 pmThe beginning of the Long Parliament and a series of meetings in England, in 1640, led to the creation of the British Royal Society. Robert Moray in Edinburgh in 1641 is the first recorded induction into the Freemasons, quickly followed by Elias Ashmole. Both Ashmole and Moray were founding members of the British Royal Society.
This is certainly relevant, as none other than Elias Ashmole ((1617-1692)) was a genuine "royalist".
In June 1660, Ashmole was appointed to the College of Arms as Windsor Herald of Arms in Ordinary for which he studied the Order of the Garter.

At the command of King Charles II of England and Ireland, Ashmole published the following book on the history of Order of the Garter in 1672.

Ashmole wrote the following on the character of the Order of the Garter:
We come now to treat of the most Noble and Illustrious Order of the Garter; which, if we consider either its Antiquity, or the Nobleness of the Personages, that have been enroll’d, it excels and outvies all other Institutions of Honour in the whole World. It owes its Original, as is confessed on all Hands, to Edward III. King of England and France; yet as to the Occasion, there are several Opinions which we shall rectifie.
Doesn't this confirm that the (sovereign of the) Order of the Garter controls Freemasonry?!?

See two Garter mantles, Garters Scepter, Black Rod (what is that?), Chancellors Badge, Garters Badge, Black Rods Badge.

See the Garter, Sovereigns Mantle, Hood, Surcoat, Collar, Great George Ribbond, Knight Companions Mantle, Cap and Feather.

Florentine Earl of Holland, Zealand and Friesland founded the Knights of St. James in 1290 in The Hague, consisting of 12 noblemen, including Lancelot Lord Hamilton..

There is also information on how a new Knight of the Garter is "elected" and installed.
The following was the letter to (later) King Charles II to invite him into the Garter.
Charles Rex,

Our most dear and entirely beloved Son, having, to our great Comfort, seen and considered the ripeness of your Youth, and conceived joyful and pregnant Hopes of your manly Virtue, in which we are assured you will increase, to your own Honour, both in Prowess, Wisdom, Justice, and all Princely Endowments; and that the Emulation of Chevalry will, in your tender Years, provoke and encourage you, to pursue the Glory of Heroick Actions, befitting your Royal Birth, and our Care and Education. We with the Companions of our most Noble Order of the Garter, assembled in Chapter, holden this present Day, at our Castle of Windsor; have Elected and Chosen you one of the Companions of our Order. In Signification whereof, we have sent unto you, by our Trusty and Well-Beloved Servant, Sir John Burrough Knight-Garter, and our principal King of Arms, these our Royal Letters, requiring you to make your speedy repair unto us, to receive the Ensigns of our most Noble Order, and to be ready for your Installation, upon the 21st Day of this present Month. Given under the Signet of our Order, at our Castle of Windsor, the 20th of May, in the 14th Year of our Reign, 1638.

To our dearly beloved Son Prince Charles.
On page 228 in the book, 288 of the PDF, the "seal" of the Order of the Garter can be seen, with the double-headed phoenix, Ouroboros, and St George slaying the dragon.

Also interesting is the information on finances.
You won't be surprised that the Sovereign of the Garter gets expenses paid from both the "Majesty’s Exchequer" as from the installed knights.
Except the foreign "stranger" knights and ladies are exempt from this "fee".

When a knight of the Garter dies, the (alive) knights and ladies of the Garter are expected to pay "Obiit Monies" that are "distributed in Alms-Deeds, as the Reparation of High Ways, the Relief of the Poor".

The book ends with a list of the KG's from #1 to #524 (Charles Montague, Earl of Halifax).

Here's a (long) summary of the Ashmole book - The History of the Most Noble Order of the Garter: ... 8555-h.htm

At the following link the complete book can be downloaded.
Elias Ashmole - The Institution, Laws and Ceremonies of the Most Noble Order of the Garter (1672):
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Napoleon - Zionist

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I've earlier posted about the French Revolution and Emperor Napoleon Bonaparte effectively being controlled by British Intelligence...

The following confirms that British Whig politician Charles James Fox and his nephew and wife his nephew Henry and Elizabeth Vassall-Fox (better known as Lord and Lady Holland) supported Napoleon.
See the caricature of Napoleon receiving Charles James Fox and his wife, and Lord and Lady Holland at "His Suite at Paris", 1802.

In 1800, Charles James Fox wrote to a friend that he had “entirely forgiven [Napoleon] and am willing to think him one of the best as I am sure he is the greatest of men… He certainly has surpassed, in my judgment, Alexander & Caesar, not to mention the great advantage he has over them in the cause he fights in”.
In 1802, Fox went to Paris to meet Napoleon.

In February 1806, Fox was selected as British Foreign Secretary and entered into war talks with Napoleon’s foreign minister, Charles-Maurice de Talleyrand.
In August 1806, he admitted that they had made a deal to wage war on Europe: “In the present disposition of the French government, there is, I fear, little probability that peace can be concluded on such terms as are alone admissible”.

Fox’s nephew Henry and wife, Lord and Lady Holland, met Napoleon and his first wife Josephine in Paris in September 1802.
Lord Holland was another Whig politician, who was Lord Privy Seal in 1806-1807: ... n-england/

Who could have guessed that Napoleon Bonaparte was an early Zionist?!?

On 9 February 1797, in Italy when Napoleon and his army entered Ancona, he noticed that the Jewish community was restricted to living in a ghetto and had to walk around with yellow bonnets and a yellow arm band with the "Star of David", so they could be identified as Jews.
Napoleon immediately ordered that the arm bands and yellow bonnets were removed and closed the ghettos. The Jews of Ancona were allowed to live anywhere and could practice their religion openly. Later, Napoleon also liberated the Jews of Rome, Venice, Verona and Padua.

On 12 June 1798, when the French occupied Malta, Napoleon learnt that the Templar Knights did not allow the Jews to practice their religion in a synagogue and enslaved Jewish prisoners and used them as slaves or sold them.
Napoleon immediately gave the Jews permission to build a synagogue.

On 20 April 1799, Napoleon issued a proclamation that was published on 22 may 1799.
Bonaparte has published a proclamation in which he invites all the Jews of Asia and Africa to gather under his flag in order to re-establish the ancient Jerusalem. He has already given arms to a great number, and their battalions threaten Aleppo.
In other words, Napoleon promised to conquer the Middle East to establish Israel 150 years before it was founded.

On 16 August, 1800, Napoleon declared:
If I governed a nation of Jews, I should reestablish the Temple of Solomon.
Solomon's Temple is of course an important symbol in freemasonry...

In 1801, Napoleon insured freedom of religions and since 1807 made the Catholic, Protestant (Lutheran and Calvinist) and Jewish "the official religions of France".
Napoleon even declared France the homeland of the Jews, as he could not establish Palestine as their home country.

France under Napoleon made Jews equal citizens to other Frenchmen at a time that they were often persecuted. In every country that Napoleon Bonaparte conquered, he emancipated the Jews by giving them equal rights and abolishing laws that restricted Jews to the ghettos.
Starting in 1806, Napoleon passed a number of laws to elevate the Jews in the French Empire. He recognised the Sanhedrin to represent the Jewish community (which of course wasn't good for all Jews...).

On 23 July 1806, Napoleon stated in front of the representatives in Paris:
My desire is to make Jews equal citizens in France, have a conciliation between their religion and their responsibilities in becoming French, and to answer all the accusations made against them. I want all people living in France to be equal citizens and benefit from our laws.
See an 1806 French picture showing Napoleon emancipating the Jews.

Because of heavy criticism by famous personalities like Chateaubriand, Cardinal Fesh, Marshal Kellermann and Tsar Alexander, on 17 March 1808, Napoleon was pressured to introduce a "Restrictive Decree" that again limited the freedom of the Jews.
But this was not much more than a publicity stunt to reduce criticism and then gradually again remove the restrictions of the Jews.

On 11 April 1808, Napoleon received the Jews Furtado and Maurice Levy of Nancy in a special audience. Napoleon then immediately ordered 13 departments, including those of Le Midi, The Southwest and Les Vosges to eliminate the Decree. In June, Livourne and the lower Pyrenees were also ordered to remove the "Restrictive Decree".
So within 3 months, the Restrictive Decree was already cancelled for more than half of the French departments.

In 1811, all restrictions were removed which made the Jews equal to non-Jews in France. Jews could attend universities, do the professions they wanted and could work for the government.
In 1811, Napoleon arranged that Portugal gave Jews complete freedom, including opening their synagogues that had been closed for over 200 years.

In August 1833, Lord Holland spoke in tribute about the deceased Napoleon in the British House of Peers:
The very people who detested this great man have acknowledged that for 10 centuries there has not appeared upon earth a more extraordinary "character".
It is also interesting that the laws that were passed in France in 1808, are still in existence to this very day:
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