Systems of Man

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notmartha
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Systems of Man

Post by notmartha » Tue Aug 29, 2017 1:44 pm

Man has forever tried to be like God, and usurp His Sovereign position. Mans attempts at creating systems of politics, government, and "laws" have and will continue to be miserable failures.

Lysander Spooner said, "Practically speaking, no government knows any limits to its power, except the endurance of the people. But that the people are stronger than the government, and will resist in extreme cases, our governments would be little or nothing else than organized systems of plunder and oppression."

And that is exactly what the nature of manmade governments is - systems to plunder and oppress.

These systems go by various names. Sometimes one system disguises itself as another system. I'm starting this topic to index the names of these systems with links to their Terms of Art pages, to sort out the different meanings and applications.

Let's start with the basics:

State (not to be confused with Deep State)

Nation

Government

De Facto

Confederation/Federation

Republic

Democracy

Phyles

Society

Kakistocracy


And then move on to the "ism's" - "ism" meaning "a distinctive practice, system, or philosophy, typically a political ideology":

Anarchy / Anarchism

Antinomy / Antinomianism

Anti-Semitism

Capitalism

Communism

Fascism

Feminism

Humanism / Humanist

Luciferianism

Postmodernism

Racist / Racism

Socialism

Statist / Statism

Zionist / Zionism


And then some systems of "law":

Equity

Public Policy

Law Merchant aka Mercantile Law

Admiralty


Let's not forget the systematic crimes:

Genocide

Democide

Oppression

Schemes

Casulties

Civil Forfeiture

Regulations

Reification

Robbery

Terrorism

Murder

Extortion

Conversion

Slavery

Discrimination





(There are probably many more terms that can be added to this subsection, as there is no limit to the crimes systematically committed by man against man)







If anyone would like any other "systems" added to the Terms of Art section, please let me know.

Editor - I'll move this post if you think it better elsewhere.
Last edited by notmartha on Fri Sep 27, 2019 12:46 pm, edited 20 times in total.
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by editor » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:48 pm

I think this topic is fine where it is. In fact, I like it so much, I made it 'sticky'.
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by Firestarter » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:33 pm

I believe that all “real” religion is essentially the same (and I think that in essence there is no difference between religion and philosophy).
I have seen that just about every “large” organisation becomes corrupt. While I mainly agree with the Original Post, I do not understand what kind of “order” you get in a “godmade” (as opposed to a “manmade”) government…

I think that the following “chapters” of the Tao Te Ching have similarities to the sentiments in this thread: http://www.with.org/tao_te_ching_en.pdf
Chapter 3
By not adoring the worthy, people will not fall into dispute.
By not valuing the hard to get objects, people will not become robbers.
By not seeing the desires of lust, one’s heart will not be confused.
Therefore the governing of the saint is to empty one’s mind, substantiate one’s virtue, weaken one’s worldly ambition and strengthen one’s essence.
He lets the people to be innocent of worldly knowledge and desire, and keeps the clever ones from making trouble with their wits.
Acts naturally without desire, then everything will be accomplished in its natural order.


Chapter 57
Govern a nation with the right principle, Fight a battle with the tactics of surprise, Rule over the world with peace and natural effort.
How do I know that this so?
By the following:
The more prohibitions that are imposed on people, The poorer the people become.
The more sharp weapons the people possess, The greater is the chaos in the country.
The more clever and crafty the people become, The more unusual affairs occur.
The more laws and regulations that exist, The more thieves and brigands appear.
Hence, the saint declares:
I act effortlessly with the Way of Tao, Thus, people transform themselves naturally.
I love tranquility and peace, Thus, people naturally follow the right Way.
I do not exhaust people with labor, Thus, people naturally are wealthy.
I have no personal desires, Thus, people naturally are innocent and simple.
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by notmartha » Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:14 am

editor wrote:I think this topic is fine where it is. In fact, I like it so much, I made it 'sticky'.
Thank you.
Firestarter wrote:I believe that all “real” religion is essentially the same (and I think that in essence there is no difference between religion and philosophy).
I agree that philosophy does at times overlap with religion , but while philosophy pertains more to a love for intellectual knowledge and wisdom, religion is more of a physically manifested spiritual knowledge and wisdom. I'm not sure what you mean by "'real' religion", but I agree that there are similarities in all religions, as the Laws of Nature are universal, even for those who choose not to believe in Nature's God.

Even the citations you provided from Tao Te Ching point to "natural order."

There is a topic for nature and natural law here, but I'm going to expand on it some more.

Sometimes "systems of man" recognize (in word, if not deed) the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God. Such is the case with The Declaration of Independence which states:

“When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the Powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to separation.”

Bouvier’s Dictionary of Law, 1856, defines “Law of Nature” as:

The law of nature is that which God, the sovereign of the universe, has prescribed to all men, not by any formal promulgation, but by the internal dictate of reason alone. It is discovered by a just consideration of the agreeableness or disagreeableness of human actions to the nature of man; and it comprehends all the duties which we owe either to the Supreme Being, to ourselves, or to our neighbors; as reverence to God, self defence, temperance, honor to our parents, benevolence to all, a strict adherence to our engagements, gratitude, and the like.

Bouvier’s then itemizes six specific areas of the Laws of Nature, namely:

1. Comparative sagacity, or reason - When man is properly organized, he is able to discover moral good from moral evil; and the study of man proves that man is not only an intelligent, but a free being, and he is therefore responsible for his actions. The judgment we form of our good actions, produces happiness; on the contrary the judgment we form of our bad actions produces unhappiness.

2. Self love - Every animated being is impelled by nature to his own preservation, to defend his life and body from injuries, to shun what may be hurtful, and to provide all things requisite to his existence. Hence the duty to watch over his own preservation. Suicide and duelling are therefore contrary to this law; and a man cannot mutilate himself, nor renounce his liberty.

3. The attraction of the sexes to each other – The attraction of the sexes has been provided for the preservation of the human race, and this law condemns celibacy. The end of marriage proves that polygamy, (q. v.) and polyendry, (q. v.) are contrary to the law of nature. Hence it follows that the husband and wife have a mutual and exclusive right over each other.

4. The tenderness of parents towards their children - Man from his birth is wholly unable to provide for the least of his necessities; but the love of his parents supplies for this weakness. This is one of the most powerful laws of nature. The principal duties it imposes on the parents, are to bestow on the child all the care its weakness requires, to provide for its necessary food and clothing, to instruct it, to provide for its wants, and to use coercive means for its good, when requisite.

5. The religious sentiment - The religious sentiment which leads us naturally towards the Supreme Being, is one of the attributes which belong to humanity alone; and its importance gives it the rank of the moral law of nature. From this sentiment arise all the sects and different forms of worship among men.

6. Sociability - The need which man feels to live in society, is one of the primitive laws of nature, whence flow our duties and rights; and the existence of society depends upon the condition that the rights of all shall be respected. On this law are based the assistance, succors and good offices which men owe to each other, they being unable to provide each every thing for himself.


Most religions agree with the basic tenets of these "Laws of Nature."

For Christians, the Law of Nature’s God is summed up in Matthew 22:36-40 as follows:

"Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him,

[1]Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

[2]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."


The first commandment encompasses Laws of Nature 1 and 5. The second commandment encompasses Laws of Nature 1, 2, 3, 4, and 6.

Richard Maybury, author of the Uncle Eric series of books, summarizes Natural Law as such:

1. Do all you have agreed to do. [i.e. contract law]
2. Do not encroach on other people or their property [i.e. tort law]


These basic Laws are understood by every religion.
Firestarter wrote:While I mainly agree with the Original Post, I do not understand what kind of “order” you get in a “godmade” (as opposed to a “manmade”) government…
Nothing in the Law of Nature and Nature’s God is whimsical, arbitrary, or capricious. It does not destroy liberty, but rather promotes it. It does not devastate civilization, but enables it to advance. The Law of Nature and Nature’s God does not give privileges to a select few, but instead sees all Men as being created equal. It is perfect Law.

One last quote, from Lysander Spooner:

“Honesty, justice, natural law, is usually a very plain and simple matter, easily understood by common minds. Those who desire to know what it is, in any particular case, seldom have to go far to find it. It is true, it must be learned, like any other science. But it is also true that it is very easily learned. …

“Children learn the fundamental principles of natural law at a very early age. Thus they very early understand that one child must not, without just cause, strike or otherwise hurt, another; that one child must not assume any arbitrary control or domination over another; that one child must not, either by force, deceit, or stealth, obtain possession of anything that belongs to another; that if one child commits any of these wrongs against another, it is not only the right of the injured child to resist, and, if need be, punish the wrongdoer, and compel him to make reparation, but it is also the right, and the moral duty, of all other children, and all other persons, to assist the injured party in defending his rights, and redressing his wrongs. These are fundamental principles of natural law, which govern the most important transactions of man with man. Yet children learn them earlier than they learn that three and three are six, or five and five are ten. Their childish plays, even, could not be carried on without a constant regard to them; and it is equally impossible for persons of any age to live together in peace on any other conditions.”


ETA:
In light of this post, I want to qualify my statement "The Law of Nature and Nature’s God does not give privileges to a select few, but instead sees all Men as being created equal." Obviously, some of men's characteristics are unequal, some being taller, stronger, smarter, more creative, or more beautiful than others. I was strictly writing of the equality of men under the Laws of God, with Him equitably judging all sin and righteousness, bringing each their just deserts equally.
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by Firestarter » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:50 am

notmartha wrote:
Firestarter wrote:I believe that all “real” religion is essentially the same (and I think that in essence there is no difference between religion and philosophy).
I agree that philosophy does at times overlap with religion , but while philosophy pertains more to a love for intellectual knowledge and wisdom, religion is more of a physically manifested spiritual knowledge and wisdom. I'm not sure what you mean by "'real' religion", but I agree that there are similarities in all religions, as the Laws of Nature are universal, even for those who choose not to believe in Nature's God.
There is lot of "pseudo-religion" as opposed to "real" religion, which is universal...
There are a lot of different flavours of "philosophy", not all of it is about "intellectual knowledge". I believe that "wisdom" should be an ideal in "real" religion...
notmartha wrote:Even the citations you provided from Tao Te Ching point to "natural order."
In taoism (whether it is a religion or philosophy I don't know) the ideal is "tao" and not doing anything in violation with the tao. I believe that a good translation for "tao" is "Law of Nature".
notmartha wrote:Bouvier’s Dictionary of Law, 1856, defines “Law of Nature” as:

The law of nature is that which God, the sovereign of the universe, has prescribed to all men, not by any formal promulgation, but by the internal dictate of reason alone. It is discovered by a just consideration of the agreeableness or disagreeableness of human actions to the nature of man; and it comprehends all the duties which we owe either to the Supreme Being, to ourselves, or to our neighbors; as reverence to God, self defence, temperance, honor to our parents, benevolence to all, a strict adherence to our engagements, gratitude, and the like.
The Original Post is critical to the "society" we survive in. Thanks for the explanation on what you consider the "solution". Maybe this is also a good explanation for the name the "Lawful path"?

I sure hope there is something like "the internal dictate of reason" (is that the same as conscience?) in all humans...
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by notmartha » Thu Aug 31, 2017 9:33 pm

Firestarter wrote:I sure hope there is something like "the internal dictate of reason" (is that the same as conscience?) in all humans...
I think “reason” and “conscience” are pretty much synonymous, both being nouns meaning the power and/or capacity to tell right from wrong. There is another interesting word that I think is applicable to this discussion – sinderesis.

Black’s Law Dictionary (1st – 4th editions) defines Sinderesis as follows:

“A natural power of the soul, set in the highest part thereof, moving and stirring It to good, and abhorring evil. And therefore sinderesis never sinneth nor or erreth. And this sinderesis our Lord put in man, to the intent that the order of things should be observed. And therefore sinderesis is called by some men the ‘law of reason,’ for it ministerith the principles of the law of reason, the which be in every man by nature, in that he is a reasonable creature.” Doct. & Stud. 39.

I do believe that all men are created as reasonable creatures (barring of course a physical malady causing inability to reason), with Natural Law written on the hearts of all. This is confirmed in Romans 2:12-15 -

“ For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. For when the [Nations], which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)”

In spite of the fact that man was created with Natural Laws in his heart, waiting to be discovered and learned, some “made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they should hear the law,” (Zechariah 7:12) so that “even their mind and conscience is defiled” (Titus 1:15). The Laws of Nature and Nature’s God being perfect, there are natural consequences for disobedience of these Laws, including, in time, self-destruction.
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by notmartha » Sun Sep 03, 2017 9:35 am

Ben Williams' latest newsletter is timely to this thread, discussing the psychology of men who embrace and defend the systems that hold them captive.
STOCKHOLM SYNDROME: AMERICA’S CAPTIVITY

Stockholm Syndrome indicates a break in a person’s conscience. The label came from an incident in 1973 when four people were taken hostage during a bank robbery in Stockholm, Sweden. They were held captive for six days. After their release, the victims defended their former captors and refused to testify in court against them. In fact, they became sympathetic toward their former captors and helped raise money to support them. They had formed a mental bond with their captors during their captivity.

But why would a captive sympathize with his captors? In answering this question I hope to address a large problem manifesting itself here in America.
Download and read the rest here:
http://benwilliamslibrary.com/pdfs/st17-9&10.pdf
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by LEC » Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:22 am

Religion is mans attempt to reconcile with a perfect God. That is where you get virgin sacrifice Thrown into a volcano, or the wickerman burned, OR "Tens of thousands of people flocked to the ceremony, which is held every five years at the Gandhimai temple near the border with India. About 500,000 animals are killed during the event, rights group Humane Society International estimates.

Worshippers believe the animal sacrifice, meant to appease the Hindu goddess of power, brings them luck and prosperity. "


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZKuixGmiMw&t=1s



http://www.grace-harbor-church.org/pdfs ... nglish.pdf
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by notmartha » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:02 am

LEC wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:22 am
Religion is mans attempt to reconcile with a perfect God. That is where you get virgin sacrifice Thrown into a volcano, or the wickerman burned, OR "Tens of thousands of people flocked to the ceremony, which is held every five years at the Gandhimai temple near the border with India. About 500,000 animals are killed during the event, rights group Humane Society International estimates.

Worshippers believe the animal sacrifice, meant to appease the Hindu goddess of power, brings them luck and prosperity. "
Yes, this is a good example of systems of man, that can be changed at whim.

From HERE:
“The Gadhimai Temple Trust hereby declares our formal decision to end animal sacrifice. With your help, we can ensure Gadhimai 2019 is free from bloodshed. Moreover, we can ensure Gadhimai 2019 is a momentous celebration of life,” the chairman of the trust, Ram Chandra Shah, said in a statement.

“For generations, pilgrims have sacrificed animals to the Goddess Gadhimai, in the hope of a better life. For every life taken, our heart is heavy. The time has come to transform an old tradition. The time has come to replace killing and violence with peaceful worship and celebration,” he added.
IF the Hindu goddess is real, and IF the goddess orders her believers to sacrifice animals, then who is man to say otherwise? Can the declaration of a TRUST invalidate law?

IF the goddess and/or order to sacrifice animals are not real, then why are so many blindly following yet another system of man?
LEC wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:22 am
http://www.grace-harbor-church.org/pdfs ... nglish.pdf
There is no supporting text with this link you posted about dispensationalism. I posted HERE about man's meddling with God's Law by the introduction of false doctrine, and changing the meanings of words.
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Re: Systems of Man

Post by notmartha » Thu Nov 15, 2018 6:04 am

Ben Williams’ latest Straight Talk newsletter, Popular Delusions, tells of lies people believe about Systems of Man.
Whether talking about history or philosophy, religion or logic, Americans have been lied to and programmed to believe false stories, and it affects every aspect of their lives including their ability to solve problems. Living with lies and delusions creates a mental disfunction - a disconnect from reality and reason. Mental blindness develops gradually and paralyzes people. They don't know they are blind.

This could not have happened if the people hadn't first lost faith in God. Without that faith we have no protection against deception.
Download the complete newsletter here:

http://benwilliamslibrary.com/pdfs/st18-11&12.pdf
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