Proof that the federal courts are without judicial power.

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iamfreeru2
Posts: 185
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:11 am

Re: Proof that the federal courts are without judicial power

Post by iamfreeru2 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:56 am

notmartha wrote:Mine in black, Michael's in red:
“Them” qualifies “United States” as plural, referring to the independent states as a collective. It may be plural, but the fact remains that this is not talking about the free and independent States of the Perpetual Union If they do not refer to the collective of the perpetual union/confederation of independent states, which collective of states do you think they refer to? The future States of the United States under the NWO and Constitution.
Just a bit of digging and the truth (assuming the Journals are accurate) is revealed. The "United States" were not some "future States" as Michael claims.

RESPUBLICA v. SWEERS 1 U.S. 41 (1779)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federa ... /case.html

In 1778, defendant was charged with defrauding the United States by forging two bills. Defendant’s claim was that the United States did not yet exist as a matter of law. This was the court’s reply:
The first exception was, 'that, at the time of the offence charged, the United States were not a body corporate known in law.' But the Court are of a different opinion. From the moment of their association, the United States necessarily became a body corporate; for, there was no superior from whom that character could otherwise be derived. In England, the king, lords, and commons, are certainly a body corporate; and yet there never was any charter or statute, by which they were expressly so created.
The United States existed as a body corporate from the time the colonies banded together in association on October 20 , 1774. This has nothing to do with United States, but the Continental Congress.
The foregoing association Nothing in the link says anything about the association being the United States. being determined upon by the Congress, was ordered to be subscribed by the several members thereof; and thereupon, we have hereunto set our respective names accordingly.
In Congress, Philadelphia, October 20, 1774.
Signed,Peyton Randolph, President.
New Hampshire
• Jno. Sullivan
• Nathel. Folsom
Massachusetts Bay
• Thomas Cushing
• Saml. Adams
• John Adams
• Robt.Treat Paine
Rhode Island
• Step. Hopkins
• Sam: Ward
Connecticut
• Elipht Dyer
• Roger Sherman
• Silas Deane
New York
• Isaac Low
• John Alsop
• John Jay
• Jas. Duane
• Phil. Livingston
• Wm. Floyd
• Henry Wisner
• S: Boerum
New Jersey
• J. Kinsey
• Wil: Livingston
• Stepn. Crane
• Richd. Smith
• John De Hart
Pennsylvania
• Jos. Galloway
• John Dickinson
• Cha Humphreys
• Thomas Mifflin
• E. Biddle
• John Morton
• Geo: Ross
The Lower Counties New Castle
• Cæsar Rodney
• Tho. M: Kean
• Geo: Read
Maryland
• Mat Tilghman"
• Ths. Johnson Junr.
• Wm. Paca
• Samuel Chase
From Bouvier’s 1856:
" A corporation, or body politic, or body incorporate, is a collection of many; individuals united in one body, under a special denomination, having perpetual succession under an artificial form, and vested by the policy of the law, with a capacity of acting in several respects as an individual, particularly of taking and granting property, contracting obligations, and of suing and being sued; of enjoying privileges and immunities in common, and of exercising a variety of political rights, more or less extensive, according to the design of its institution, or the powers conferred upon it, either at the time of its creation, or at any subsequent period of its existence."
I never said the United States is not a body corporate, but the United States has never been the States of the perpetual Union. Under the AOC United States is a committee or delegates, one form each State to do make laws for the territory owned by The United States of America. Of course, the only way you are going to know this is understanding the four organic laws of The United States of America. United States and The United States of America are not now, and have never been one and the same.

BTW, The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America did not exist in A.D. 1774. On November 15, A.D. 1777, the Article of Confederation was created to form the Confederacy "stiled" The United State of America, not the United States (see Article 1 AOC). And yes the people of The United States of America created United States (Congress), not to make laws for them as free inhabitants, but to make laws for the territory owned by The United States of America.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
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notmartha
Posts: 769
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Re: Proof that the federal courts are without judicial power

Post by notmartha » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:14 am

iamfreeru2 wrote:I never said the United States is not a body corporate, but the United States has never been the States of the perpetual Union. Under the AOC United States is a committee or delegates, one form each State to do make laws for the territory owned by The United States of America. Of course, the only way you are going to know this is understanding the four organic laws of The United States of America. United States and The United States of America are not now, and have never been one and the same.

BTW, The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America did not exist in A.D. 1774. On November 15, A.D. 1777, the Article of Confederation was created to form the Confederacy "stiled" The United State of America, not the United States (see Article 1 AOC). And yes the people of The United States of America created United States (Congress), not to make laws for them as free inhabitants, but to make laws for the territory owned by The United States of America.
Lincoln talked and acted as if the "United States" was in fact the States of the perpetual Union, and predated the Articles of Confederation. This, along with the court case I posted previously (and again below), would be indicators that the "United States" existed as an Association before "The United States of America," not the other way around.

Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, March 4, 1861:
I hold that, in contemplation of universal law and of the Constitution, the Union of these States is perpetual. Perpetuity is implied, if not expressed, in the fundamental law of all national governments. It is safe to assert that no government proper ever had a provision in its organic law for its own termination. Continue to execute all the express provisions of our National Constitution, and the Union will endure forever--it being impossible to destroy it except by some action not provided for in the instrument itself.

Again, if the United States be not a government proper, but an association of States in the nature of contract merely, can it, as a contract, be peaceably unmade by less than all the parties who made it? One party to a contract may violate it--break it, so to speak; but does it not require all to lawfully rescind it?

Descending from these general principles, we find the proposition that in legal contemplation the Union is perpetual confirmed by the history of the Union itself. The Union is much older than the Constitution. It was formed, in fact, by the Articles of Association in 1774. It was matured and continued by the Declaration of Independence in 1776. It was further matured, and the faith of all the then thirteen States expressly plighted and engaged that it should be perpetual, by the Articles of Confederation in 1778 [sic]. And, finally, in 1787 one of the declared objects for ordaining and establishing the Constitution was "TO FORM A MORE PERFECT UNION."

But if the destruction of the Union by one or by a part only of the States be lawfully possible, the Union is LESS perfect than before the Constitution, having lost the vital element of perpetuity.

It follows from these views that no State upon its own mere motion can lawfully get out of the Union; that Resolves and Ordinances to that effect are legally void; and that acts of violence, within any State or States, against the authority of the United States, are insurrectionary or revolutionary, according to circumstances.

I therefore consider that, in view of the Constitution and the laws, the Union is unbroken; and to the extent of my ability I shall take care, as the Constitution itself expressly enjoins upon me, that the laws of the Union be faithfully executed in all the States. Doing this I deem to be only a simple duty on my part; and I shall perform it so far as practicable, unless my rightful masters, the American people, shall withhold the requisite means, or in some authoritative manner direct the contrary. I trust this will not be regarded as a menace, but only as the declared purpose of the Union that it WILL Constitutionally defend and maintain itself.
This goes hand in hand with my previous post:
RESPUBLICA v. SWEERS 1 U.S. 41 (1779)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federa ... /case.html

In 1778, defendant was charged with defrauding the United States by forging two bills. Defendant’s claim was that the United States did not yet exist as a matter of law. This was the court’s reply:
The first exception was, 'that, at the time of the offence charged, the United States were not a body corporate known in law.' But the Court are of a different opinion. From the moment of their association, the United States necessarily became a body corporate; for, there was no superior from whom that character could otherwise be derived. In England, the king, lords, and commons, are certainly a body corporate; and yet there never was any charter or statute, by which they were expressly so created
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