the CR process

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samsara123
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the CR process

Post by samsara123 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:05 am

I read an article that said that the process for CR is wrong and needs to be evaluated. I wonder, did the poster thoroughly go thru winston shrouts materials? He himself said he's not well versed. I say because I offer winston shrouts dvds for those who are interested (riverflow49 at the usual hotmale dotcom) and have never heard any problems or issues - they are not philosophising on jurisprudence, nor are they murderes trying to get out of dodge- they just want a bit of justice in a confusing system.
The ones that always bash CR are the non WS ppl that name a billion names and processes but never were given a concrete plan of action... Jus tthought Id put this out there
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Re: the CR process

Post by editor » Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:03 am

What is a "non WS ppl"?
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Re: the CR process

Post by iamfreeru2 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:08 pm

editor wrote:What is a "non WS ppl"?
Translation: non Winston Shrout people. Not quite sure what "CR Process" is though?

IMHO, Winston Shrout is just a PAYtriot. Many people have been sucked into his seminars only to use the material he teaches to get into trouble, material he has never used himself by his own admission. Although I never used his material, I have friends that have and they all lost. At one time I listened to WS because it sounded good, but then I woke up.
I am called Michael, a bond servant of the Chirst
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Re: the CR process

Post by editor » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:29 pm

Samsara123,

I wrote the article you mentioned in your post, and I stand by it.

I read the Commercial Redemption paperwork back in 1999 when it first came out. Parts of it sounded good, but mostly I found it to be fatally flawed for the reasons I have already outlined. I have not studied Winston Shrout, but if he advocates CR, I do not care to.

Why?

I'm willing to acknowledge that additional study may have been done, and better process developed, in the fourteen years since I looked at CR. However, if today's CR is really that different from what I looked at in 1999, then it is not CR, it's something else. Give it a new name.

On the other hand, if (as I suspect) it's the same process, based on the same theory, with a few new gimmiks, then please keep calling it CR and handle it with extreme caution. Just because you decide to call a shit bucket "Honey Pot" doesn't make it smell any sweeter.

Above all, if any of these processes are showing positive results, we need more documentation. Stop relying on mainstream media to give publicity to people who have successfully beaten mainstream media's owners. We have the tools now, through the Internet, to generate our own publicity. If someone has a win, they need to publish the paperwork they used, along with court transcripts, copies of judgments, etc.

Until and unless I see it with my own eyes, I do not believe this sow's ear can ever be made into a silk purse.
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Re: the CR process

Post by iamfreeru2 » Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:43 pm

Thanks for clarifying for me what CR is Gregory. My brain just ain't what it used to be (LOL), and yes, it is the same old process in a different wrapper. I went to Winston's site this morning to take a look. :roll:

I totally agree with your last post.
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Re: the CR process

Post by Thomas Jeffrey » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:58 pm

Thanks for that... I'll never look at my honey pot the same way again! :shock:
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Re: the CR process

Post by editor » Mon Jul 04, 2016 5:18 pm

Another letter from a defender of Commercial Redemption. My response follows:
Your explanation of "Commercial Redemption Rejected as Valueless"

Appears to be restricted because of lack of perspective, your logic
process should to apply the COMPLETE understanding of who Yashua is
and what his word says and what he is doing, your label of Redemption
as Valueless is immature, Yahsua is the creator of honest
relationships as in commerce, and sense man (debt base currency ) has
become dishonest and has stolen the wealth and energy Yashua has
given, that has become a judgment against us yet if we repent, of
course the debt is paid at the cross, so how is the repentance taking
place? When we establish the Yashua’s law, make crooked strait
again, Take back (Daniel 7) return wealth and secure the future for
Yahsua’s children. All while exercising judgment, mercy, and grace
with the gifts of agape and kindness.

Yashua is not mocked, nor on the sidelines when these wicked men began
there pursuit against Yashua’s people, he has had made provisions in
security every moment the wicked try to change his laws and
definitions or act and accept a thought that is untrue. When they do,
that becomes there judgment as well.

As for the value of repentance it is priceless, in all areas as a
whole including Commercial, all of us must face what has been done
wrong and undo this theft the Feds have done, by every single word and
line.

For He holds every breath they take in his hands with mercy.

David
Hi David,

Thanks for writing.

I've gotten a lot of mail in answer to this article over the years. Most (not all) of it negative, since people don't usually tend to write to give thanks; they only write if they have a complaint. I've been called much worse than "immature", I assure you. Turncoat, collaborator, and agent provocateur, have accompanied descriptions like stupid, ignorant, and irresponsible. I've even been accused of being in league with Satan himself.

That's okay with me, David, because my article has also helped to make some people's lives better. Those were the people who grasped the point of my article, rather than insisting on holding on to their "COMPLETE understanding" of Commercial Redemption.

Let's go with a hypothetical example, okay? Let's say you heard about this Commercial Redemption thing, and you studied everything about it that you could find, for months. There were some points you didn't understand, so you consulted with the top legal minds of the Montana Freemen AND the California Jural Society. By the time you got done, you were certain you had a "COMPLETE understanding" of the process.

So you used it. As a result you were charged with fraud and indicted by a federal grand jury. After several drawn out weeks of trial in a federal courthouse, you were sentenced to five years in a federal penitentiary, where you served your full time because the Feds wanted to make an example of you.

Given plenty of time to think, at some point you agreed with Gregory Allan: The problem was probably NOT that you were wrong-- you still believe you were right, and you probably were. The problem was that you were unable to convince a jury. How, in the space of a few weeks, could you possibly hope to educate a jury (in open court, and over a federal prosecutor's objections) about a process that took you months of study to acquire "COMPLETE understanding"?

But wait... this is NOT a hypothetical example. It actually happened to six personal friends of mine.

The point of my article is that a process such as Commercial Redemption is valueless unless someone can find a way to make it easily comprehensible by a jury. Your critique of my article failed to offer any "perspective" or insight into that which I have clearly identified as Commercial Redemption's greatest flaw. Until you have something concrete to offer along these lines, I can only view your opinions as immature.

--Gregory Allan
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Re: the CR process

Post by notmartha » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:56 am

editor wrote:The point of my article is that a process such as Commercial Redemption is valueless unless someone can find a way to make it easily comprehensible by a jury.
These types of charges are almost always put in front of a Grand Jury, and GJ rarely rules against STATE.

Here is the latest I find on WS.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-north ... s_hil.html

BTW, I completely agree with your CR article, and wonder if "David" doesn't have a financial interest in people believing the commercial redemption process works... (pretty weak comparing laws of Mercury with Laws of God...)
Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies. Psalm 27:11
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Commercial Redemption Strikes Again

Post by editor » Fri Feb 17, 2017 7:03 am

Joint TBI, FBI Operation Results in Arrests of Ten East Tennesseans on Forgery, Lien Charges

February 16, 2017

Original Source: https://tbinewsroom.com/2017/02/16/join ... n-charges/
NASHVILLE – A year-long joint investigation by the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation and the Knoxville Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation has resulted in a 320-count indictment, and the arrests of ten individuals on charges of unlawfully filing liens and making false entries into records. Multiple other state, county, and local law enforcement agencies also participated in the arrests.

At the initial request of 7th District Attorney General Dave Clark, in May 2016, TBI Special Agents began investigating reports that, over a period of several years, multiple individuals from East Tennessee had filed Uniform Commercial Code liens and financing statements with the Tennessee Secretary of State’s office in Nashville. The liens were filed against dozens of different individuals across the state, encumbering their property. The liens were filed in the amounts of $4-million to $12-million. The victims who had these liens filed against them range from citizens employed by government entities, police officers and attorneys, to elected and appointed officials, including city and county mayors, sheriffs, and members of the judiciary.

The case was ultimately assigned to a Special Prosecutor with the Davidson County District Attorney General’s Office. On January 24th, the Davidson County Grand Jury returned indictments charging multiple individuals with a combined total of 320 counts of two charges; Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, which is an E Felony, and Forgery $250,000 or more, a class A Felony. On Wednesday, simultaneous arrests of these individuals in Anderson, Cocke, Greene, and Knox counties were conducted by law enforcement officers with TBI, FBI, Tennessee Highway Patrol, Tennessee Departement of Safety and Homeland Security, Homeland Security Investigations, Knoxville Police, Knox County Sheriff, Morristown Police, Anderson County Sheriff, Cocke County Sheriff, Newport Police, Greene County Sheriff, Jefferson County Sheriff, Oak Ridge Police, and Oliver Springs Police.

The individuals were transported to Davidson County and booked into the Davidson County Jail. Those arrested as a result of these indictments, their charges, and bond amounts are below. One individual named in the indictment has not yet been arrested.

*Michael Robert Birdsell, 54, Andersonville – 8 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 8 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $150,000.

*Austin Gary Cooper, 68, Clinton – 10 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 10 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $150,000.

*Lee Harold Cromwell, 67, Oak Ridge – 14 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 14 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $150,000.

*Victor Douglas Bunch, 72, Powell – 17 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 17 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $150,000.

*Christopher Alan Hauser, 51, Del Rio – 21 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 21 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $150,000.

*Ronald James Lyons, 52, Newport – 30 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 30 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $150,000.

*James Michael Usinger, 64, Greeneville – 22 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 22 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $150,000.

*John Jeffrey Williams, 50, Powell – 3 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 3 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $25,000.

*George Edward Williams, 76, Powell – 3 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 3 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $25,000. (Currently in custody in the Anderson County Jail. No photo currently available).

*Kenneth Ray Foust, 73, Clinton – 3 counts Draw a Lien without a Legal Basis, 3 counts Forgery $250,000 or more. Bond $25,000. (Currently in custody in the Anderson County Jail).
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Re: the CR process

Post by notmartha » Sun Apr 23, 2017 12:45 pm

Update on Winston Shrout:
http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/inde ... es_fo.html
A federal jury Friday returned across-the board guilty verdicts against Winston Shrout, a prominent sovereign citizen charged with 13 counts of issuing fake financial documents to banks and the U.S. Treasury and six counts of willful failure to file tax returns from 2009 to 2014.
He will be sentenced at 11 a.m. on Aug. 1.
Making, creating and issuing fictitious financial instruments is a felony. Each count could bring up to 25 years in prison, according to prosecutors. The failure to file tax returns is a misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in prison.
Teach me thy way, O LORD, and lead me in a plain path, because of mine enemies. Psalm 27:11
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