Carolingian dynasty and the Order of the Garter

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Druid, Knight of the Garter and PM Winston Churchill was a descendant of the Duke of Marlborough and the Spencer family.
See the Duke of Marlborough's Coat Of Arms with elements of both the Churchill and Spencer arms – the double-headed eagle (phoenix), 3 dragons, lions, 2 crowns and the cross of St. George.



I thought that the lion in all these coat of arms of the aristocratic families is the Lion of Judah, but it looks like I was fooled again...
See the winged lion of Mithras; also note the serpents, dragons.


Archaeology has revealed that a lion with eagle's wings was a common symbol in Babylonia. The eagle often symbolises the sun god, so a winged lion symbolises the sun powering the lion.
The symbol of St. Mark is really the Babylonian winged lion facing the symbol of the sun god. The lion of Daniel 7 has eagle's wings, a reference to Babylon: http://www.whale.to/c/winged_lion.html

See Tiamat the chaos serpent on a Babylonian seal.



Traces of Mithras go as far back as the fourteenth century BC. Mithras was the greatest of the Yazats (angels); an angel of light associated with the sun. Mithras has a thousand ears, ten-thousand eyes.

The Mehregan feast of Mithras (or baga) in the month Bagayadi was one of the most ancient and most popular festivals for the ancient Iranians. This feast for the sun-god was probably pre-Zoroastrian of the Proto-Iranian (Aryan) era.

Mithras was very popular among the Roman military.
In Jewish mysticism, Mithras appears as Metatron, the highest of the angels. Mehregan, Tiragan and Norooz, were the only Zoroastrian feasts mentioned in the Talmud: http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Celebrations/mehregan.htm
(archived here: http://archive.is/H8D4Q)

See the Achaemenid Seal of Emperor Artaxerxes standing before Mithras Anahit – with the lion and sun motif.



In the ancient Hindu text Rig Veda, Mitra is mentioned over 200 times, who seduces people by Maya (illusion). The Sun is said to be the eye of Mitra.
Mitra and Varuna are two devas (deities) frequently referred to in the Rig Veda. Their connection is so close that they are often considered as one Mitra–Varuna.
See the statue of Varuna with Varunani, discovered in Karnataka, 8th century AD.



In the Rig Veda, Vritra is a serpent or dragon, also known as Ahi (snake). The father of Vritra was Tvashta and his mother Danu.
In most descriptions, Vritra appears as a snake or a three-headed dragon.

According to the Rig Veda, Vritra kept the waters of the world captive until he was killed by Indra. The combat began after Indra had drunk a large volume of Soma to empower him. Tvashtri fashioned the thunderbolt (Vajrayudha) for Indra.
For slaying Vritra, Indra became known as Vritrahan (slayer of Vritra) and also as "slayer of the first-born of dragons". After defeating Vritra he also defeated his mother, Danu: http://allaboutdragons.com/dragons/Vritra

See Indra subduing Vritra.

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Carolus “Charles” Martel (688-741) is the founder of the Carolingian dynasty.
With all of the top aristocratic families in Europe descending from his daughter Alda and Rabbi Makhir, in particular from Alda’s son Guillaume de Gellone (a.k.a. William of Orange) and daughter Ida Redburga, arguably the Carolingians still rule the world. The Holy Roman Empire was founded by another grandson of Carolus “Charles” Martel, Charlemagne (the nephew of Alda).
See the 13th century tomb of Charles Martel.


Henry II "Curtmantle" (1133 - 1189) was the first Plantagenet King of England, he was crowned in 1154.
The Plantagenets would rule England for the next 331 years.

King Edward Plantagenet III (1312-1377) was the fifth Plantagenet ruler of England after him in the direct line of succession. The Most Noble Order of the Garter was founded by King Edward III in 1348.

As a direct descendant of the Roman Ferreoli lineage, Edward III also held a claim as the heir as king of nearly half of present-day France.
The first Ferreoli to rule in France was Roman praetorian prefect Tonantius Ferreolus (ca 405 - ca 469). His descendants through a series of strategic marriages ultimately laid a claim to the French throne before Henry II became the first Plantagenet Sovereign of England.
Also through Edward III’s mother Isabell of France (1295 – 1358), the daughter of King Philip IV Valois- Capet (1268 - 1314), he could claim the French throne.
Edward III later ceded the French crown to his cousin Jean II Valois, who was a direct descendant of Hugh Capet (939 - 996). Edward III ratified the Treaty of Brétigny in 1360 that made Jean's monarchy a reality.

The Order of the Garter was styled after the Equite Knights of Rome (a.k.a. the Equestrians).
The Equestrians later became prefects (praefecti praetorio) who serve as the Roman emperor's personal guard.

Richard III, was the last king of the Plantagenet dynasty.
After he was killed, Henry Richmond (later Henry VII Tudor) claimed the throne which began the relatively short-lived Tudor dynasty.

Sir Thomas de Holland (1314-1360) was the 13th out of 25 knights Edward III selected for the Order of the Garter in 1344. These 25 knights are considered its founder knights. His brother Sir Otho de Holland was also one of the founding knights. Their father was the first Baron of Upholland.
The Holland lineage originally hailed from Friesland; their ancestors were counts and princes of Friesland since before the birth of Jesus Christ. Legend has it that Frisians immigrated to Punjab, India in the 14th century B.C. This group may indeed be the source of the earliest “Aryan” influence in the ancient Punjab region, which predates the formation of the Scythian ethno-cultural identity.
Alexander the Great enlisted them as mercenaries when he invaded India. They eventually returned to the Friesia soon after Alexander's death. Adel I Friso became the first dynastic king of Friesland upon their return in the 3rd century B.C.
Friesian descendant Sir Siward de Longworth de Holland came to England in the early 11th century, probably hired as a mercenary by William I, 6th Duke of Normandy.

Thomas had 4 four children with Joan Plantagenet.
A year after his death in 1360 she married Edward III’s son, Edward IV "the Black Prince". Their son Richard III reigned England from 1377 to 1399.

King Henry V restored the title and honours to the Holland family in 1439 in recognition of the faithful service of John Holland.
The title went extinct after Henry Holland (1430 – 1475), John's only son became attainted as a Lancastrian in 1461, thereby forfeiting the peerage.

William Bruges, the founding Garter King of arms, kneels before St George, who’s slaying the dragon, from the Bruges Garter book.


John de Grey II (1300-1359) was another founder knight of the Order of the Garter.
The Earl Grey tea bland is named after Charles II, the 2nd Earl of Grey (1764-1845).
https://www.goodreads.com/author/show/4 ... the-garter
(archived here: http://archive.is/cbNNI)


Following is a complete (?) list of the Knights and Ladies of Order of the Garter, the most powerful "Order" in the world (1012 members since 1348).
It includes 6 Holy Roman Emperors, some (former) British Prime Ministers, and lots of members of the British and other royal families.

Current members of the Order of the Garter, from the British Royal family.
1 - Elizabeth, knighted in 1947.
2 - Philip, in 1947.
3- Charles, in 1958 (when he was only 9).
4 - Edward, in 1985.
5 - Anne, in 1994.
6 - Alexandra, in 2003.
7 - Andrew, in 2006.
8 - Edward, in 2006.
9 - William, in 2008.

At this time the Dutch Royal family has 2 Ladies/Knights of the Garter:
10 - Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands, in 1989.
11 - King Willem-Alexander of the Netherlands, in 2018.
12 - Prince Juan Carlos of Spain, in 1988.
13 - King Felipe VI of Spain, in 2017.

14 - Queen Margrethe II of Denmark, in 1979
15 - Grand duke Jean of Luxembourg, in 1972.
16 - Emperor Akihito of Japan, in 1998.
17 - King Harald V of Norway, in 2001.

The following are the remaining current Knights and Ladies from the Garter, all from Britain.
18 - Baron Edwin Bramall, in 1990.
19 - Baron John Sainsbury, in 1992.
20 - Baron John Baring, in 1994.
21 - Timothy Colman, in 1996.
22 - Duke James Hamilton, in 1999.

23 - Baron Peter Inge, in 2001.
24 - Antony Acland, in 2001.
25 - Baron Robin Butler, in 2003.
26 - Baron John Morris, in 2003.
27 - John Major, in 2005 (former British PM).
28 - Baron Richard Luce, in 2008.
29 - Thomas Dunne, in 2008.

30 - Baron Nicholas Phillips, in 2011.
31 - Baron Michael Boyce, in 2011.
32 - Baron Jock Stirrup, in 2013.
33 - Baroness Eliza Manningham-Buller, in 2014.
34 - Baron Mervyn King, in 2014 (former Governor of the Bank of England).

35 - Baron Charles Kay-Shuttleworth, in 2016.
36 - David Brewer, in 2016.
37 - Mary Fagan, in 2018.
38 - Viscount Alan Brooke, in 2018.

No less than 8 Holy Roman Emperors were Knights of the Garter…
Sigismund - Holy Roman Emperor from 1433–1437;
Albert V, Duke of Austria from 1397–1439 - later Holy Roman Emperor as Albert II;
Frederick III - Holy Roman Emperor 1415–1493; [Not Installed]
Maximilian, King of the Romans 1459–1520 - later Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I;

Charles, Archduke of Austria and Duke of Burgundy 1500–1558 – later Holy Roman Emperor Charles V;
Ferdinand, Archduke of Austria 1503–1564 - later Holy Roman Emperor Ferdinand I;
Rudolf II - Holy Roman Emperor 1552–1612;
Maximilian II - Holy Roman Emperor 1527–1576, see his Coat of arms.


Peter II, Emperor of Brazil, was the first non-European member of the Garter in 1871.
He was followed by…

Naser al-Din, Shah of Persia, knighted in 1873.
Muzzafir al-Din, Shah of Persia, in 1903 (who gave the Anglo-Persian Oil Company a 60 year oil monopoly).

Emperor Mutsohito of Japan, in 1905.
Emperor Yoshihito of Japan, in 1912.
Emperor Hirohito of Japan, knighted in 1929 (degraded 1941, restored 1971).
Emperor Haile Selassie of Ethiopia, knighted in 1954: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_K ... the_Garter


The motto of the Order of the Garter is in Old French “Honi soit qui mal y pense” and literally translates: “Shame on him who thinks evil of it”.
In contemporary French usage, it is usually used to insinuate that somebody, something isn’t as innocent as it appears but have a agenda.

“Honi soit qui mal y pense” can be found on the front cover of the British Passport, Cayman Islands, and Gibraltar.
See the Gibraltar passport.


The motto also appears in the source code for both the Apollo 11 and Apollo 13 lunar modules: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honi_soit_qui_mal_y_pense


The Stamp Act, passed on 22 March 1765 by the British Parliament, caused uproar in the colonies over colonists being forced to buy a British stamp for every official document they obtained. The controversial act was enforced in November 1765.
The stamp displayed an image of a Tudor rose framed by the word “America” and the motto of the Order of the Garter “Honi soit qui mal y pense”.


The colonists greeted the stamps with outrage and violence. Colonial merchants called for a boycott of British goods; some even organised attacks on customs houses and the homes of tax collectors.
A group of Bostonians for example burned a building they thought to be the “Stamp Office” and invaded the home of stamp distributor Andrew Oliver, threatening to kill him. Oliver had already fled the premises and resigned his post. In every state, except Georgia, the “stamp master” resigned under duress, making the Stamp Act impossible to implement.

On 18 March 1766, Parliament voted to repeal the Stamp Act.
At the same time they passed the Declaratory Act, which confirmed that British government had total legislative power over the colonies. The Declaratory Act carefully omitted any assertion of Parliament’s right to tax colonists.
At the same time, Parliament passed the Revenue Act of 1766, which compensated Britain’s loss of income from the stamp tax with taxes on molasses (an ingredient in making rum). The colonists paid this tax without complaint.

The protests against the Stamp Act is sometimes considered one of the first organised political actions of the American Revolution: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-his ... remembered
(archived here: http://archive.is/fpfF1)


The Abbey of St Paul’s outside the Vatican Walls shares a common history with the Basilica for which it was founded.
The coat of arms of the Abbey still includes the garter and the motto: “Honi soit qui mal y pense”, which surround the shield and the traditional image of the sword of Paul

During the Middle Ages, the kings of England exercised the function of protectors of the Basilica: http://www.basilicasanpaolo.org/interno ... 2&lang=eng


Here’s a British Royal Fusiliers cap badge featuring “Honi soit qui mal y pense”. I’m afraid I don’t know what the top part signifies (a tree, fire?).


See the Coat of Arms for Heidelberg Castle, Germany (1683).


The Coat of arms over the entrance to the electoral office in Stolpen, Germany.


It appears on the Royal Coat of Arms of the British East India Company

“Honi soit qui mal y pense” was also on Hong Kong coins – see the Tael (1867).

http://64.62.227.27/v3/new-world-order/ ... ttedPage=0
(archived here: http://archive.is/ACdVE)


The following French Caricature, shows that already in 1899 people knew about the true nature of British imperialism.

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I was looking for more information on the European aristocrats that supported the German Nazis: viewtopic.php?f=7&p=5573#p5572

I looked in particular for the predecessors of Montagu Norman and Otto von Habsburg.


The Order of the Garter is the continuation of the Knights Templar of London, who covertly manage the City of London Corporation which was founded by Templars.

The ascendants of Montagu Norman, include the Montagu family are that came from Italy before settling in France. They became British Peers around 1149 and further gained baronages through serving King Edward III of England.
The Montagu family are British Peers with dukedoms all over the United Kingdom. The Montagu, Douglas, Scott, and Percy families are all intermarried and claim to be related to Normans which claim to be relatives of Norsemen.
The Percy family came to England in the 11th century. They have bloodline relations to Saxons, Anglicans, and the originally Turkish-Scythian Alans which settled in France around the 5th century.

William de Montagu (a.k.a. William de Montacute), 2nd Earl of Salisbury, 4th Baron Montagu, King of Man was a founding Knight of the Order of the Garter.
See his Coat of arms, with the triskelion that was adopted in the Coat of arms of Man.


The House of Montagu is deeply involved in merchant banking and are strong supporters of British-Zionism while posing as “anti-Zionists”. The Montagu family originally established the Bank of England for the British Crown.
The Montagu Barons have even greater international influences in banking than the Rothschild family as the co-founders of the Bank of England and connections with HSBC and their Norman agents’ connections to the Bank for International Settlements. The Montagus are Roman Catholic.

Walter Montagu was a secret agent working with the Medicis in France and the Vatican. Charles Montagu, the 1st Earl of Halifax, worked at the Crown’s Treasury and after developing the Bank of England he became the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The Montagu family of Manchester own the British Cheetham Hill Gang crime firm.
The Montagus of Manchester established residences in Australia. Sharp End International is a private military company in Australia and New Zealand.
HSBC recently incorporated The Montagu’s of Swaythling’s Samuel Montagu & Co. into their multibillion dollar private equity firm called the Montagu Private Equity under HSBC which manages about 5 billion in assets.

Count Gustaf Douglas from the Scottish Douglas clan is a Swedish billionaire noble.

The head of the Percy family is Duke Ralph Percy and has the same grandfather as Duke Richard Montagu-Douglas-Scott. His sons are Earl of Percy, George Percy, and Max Ralph Percy who married Princess Nora Oettingen-Spielberg of Germany.
Barbara Bush was born a Pierce and is closely related with the Percy family which formerly used the name Pierce-Eye. Charles “Don Carlos” Percy of the Percy family established Trail Lake Plantation in the South of the US which intermarried with the Walker family, like the Bush, Pierce and Walker families have intermarried.
The Walkers were slave traders and the Percy family owned slaves. US President Franklin Pierce was a cousin of the slave owning Percy’s and was against ending slavery: https://ahuwahzeus583992924.wordpress.c ... ng-cartel/
(archived here: http://archive.is/Sxh95)


An interesting story is that (another) founding Knight of the Garter, Thomas de Holland, at 24 married the 11-year old Joan Plantagenet in 1339. Joan was the daughter of Edmund, earl of Kent, granddaughter of Edward I and cousin of King Edward III.
Then, while Thomas was fighting abroad, Joan married again in February 1341 to William de Montagu.

After Thomas de Holland had made a name for himself, and became a Knight of the Garter, in 1348, he petitioned the papal court to confirm the validity of his marriage and have Joan returned to him. Joan testified that the marriage had been “consummated” almost immediately after the wedding ceremony.
In November 1349, the Pope annulled Joan’s marriage to Montagu and she was ordered back to Holland.

After De Holland died, Joan, would marry “Black Prince” Edward IV, and their son would be crowned in 1377 as King Richard II: https://historytheinterestingbits.com/t ... m-montagu/


Of the 9 (I thought only 8!) Holy Roman Emperors that were also Knights of the Garter; 8 were of the House of Habsburg.

Albert the Magnanimous (Albert V) was King of Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia and Germany, Duke of Luxembourg and, Archduke of Austria – and Knight of the Garter since 1438.

Frederick III was the first emperor of the House of Habsburg and the third member of the House of Habsburg to be “elected” King of Germany – and Knight of the Garter since 1457.

Maximilian I ruled jointly with his father from ca. 1483 to his father's death in 1493. Maximilian expanded the influence of the House of Habsburg through war and his marriage in 1477 to the heiress to the Duchy of Burgundy – and Knight of the Garter since 1489.

Charles V was Archduke of Austria, Duke of Burgundy (including part of the Netherlands and France) and ruler of Spain (including part of Italy). He brought under his rule extensive territories in West, Central and South Europe and the Spanish viceroyalties in the Americas and Asia. He was the heir of Habsburg of Austria, Valois of Burgundy and Trastámara of Spain (the Crowns of Castile and Aragon). Through Castile he owned part of the Americas and Asia – and Knight of the Garter since 1508 (at only 8 years?).
See Charles’ Coat of arms.


Ferdinand I was King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia – and Knight of the Garter since 1522.

Rudolf II was King of Hungary, Croatia, Bohemia and Archduke of Austria – and Knight of the Garter since 1587.

Maximilian II was King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia – and Knight of the Garter since 1567.

Francis II (1768 – 1835) was the last Holy Roman Emperors from 1792 to 1806, when he dissolved the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, after being defeated by Napoleon. In 1804, he became the first Emperor of Austria. He was also Apostolic King of Hungary and Bohemia – and Knight of the Garter since 1814.


Other Knights of the Garter of the House of Habsburg (that weren’t crowned Holy Roman emperor) include.

Philip I (1478 – 1506) was the first was the first King of Castile (by marriage) of the House of Habsburg, he inherited the greater part of the Duchess of Burgundy (including part of the Netherlands). The son of Maximilian I and father of Emperor Charles V – and Knight of the Garter since 1503.

Franz Joseph I (1830 – 1916) was Emperor of Austria and Monarch to many states of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, including King of Hungary – and Knight of the Garter since 1867.

Rudolf (1858 – 1889) died before he could follow in the footsteps of his father Franz Joseph I by suicide – and Knight of the Garter since 1887.

Archduke Franz Ferdinand (1863 – 1914) was never crowned. His assassination has been called the reason for WW I – and Knight of the Garter since 1902.

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Princess Beatrix of the Netherlands (like her mother Juliana was) is a Stranger Lady of the Garter, her son King Willem-Alexander became a Knight of the Garter earlier this year.
King Felipe VI of Spain and his predecessor, Juan Carlos I, are concurrently Stranger Knights of the Garter.

See Juan Carlos second from left, Beatrix second from right, and King Harald V of Norway on the far right, front row. In the centre of the front row: Philip, Elizabeth and Charles, at the Garter ceremony in 2002.



Another interesting story is of the Dutch King of Britain from 1689 to 1702, William of Orange (Willem van Oranje in Dutch), who had become a Knight of the Garter in 1653.


He was never King of the Netherlands though: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... story.html


The first King of the Netherlands, King William I, was effectively made king in 1815 after the invasion by the French under Napoleon Bonaparte made him popular, he had become a Knight of the Garter in 1814…


Tsar Alexander I of Russia, who became a Knight of the Garter in 1813, played a central role in making William the first king of the Netherlands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_I ... etherlands


Napoleon’s nephew and heir, Napoleon III, became a Knight of the Garter in 1855.
See Queen Victoria knighting Emperor of France Napoleon III at the Garter ceremony, 18 April 1855.

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The official tale on the founding of the Order of the Garter is something like - that the countess of Salisbury Joan of Kent, Edward´s cousin and daughter-in-law, dropped her garter when dancing at a ball. King Edward III picked it up, put it on his own leg and uttered “Honi soit qui mal y pense”.
Edward III then said that even knights should be honoured to wear that garter, and so founded the Order of the Garter.
This tale was first written in 1360, so after the Order was founded.

According to Nicholas de Vere the Garter is really just another tail eating snake (Ouroborus).
I think that both explanations are wrong and at the very least don’t explain why St. George is the patron saint of the Order of the Garter...

There is a third explanation that involves a late 14 century poem, involving Knight Gawain, the Green knight and a girdle that ends with “honi soit qui mal y pense”.
As this poem was written AFTER the Order of the Garter was founded in 1348, this couldn’t be an explanation either: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sir_Gawai ... een_Knight


The best explanation I found is from the tale of St. George...
St. George is the patron saint of a number of countries, including: England, Portugal, Georgia, Lithuania, and Greece.

St. George is believed to have been born in Cappadocia (in Turkey) and was born in the second hald of the 3rd century AD.
He served as a soldier in the Roman army. In protest against the persecution of Christians by Roman Emperor Diocletian (244-311) at the beginning of the 4th century, St. George resigned from his military office.
When St. George tore up the emperor’s order against the Christians, Diocletian had him imprisoned and tortured. George refused to reject his Christian faith, so he was dragged through the streets of Diospolis (a.k.a. Lydda) in Palestine and beheaded.
See the 15th century painting (note the halo).


The most popular tale of St. George involves slaying a dragon. St. George is most commonly depicted as a knight mounted on a horse and spearing a dragon.
The best known form of this legend is in the “Legenda Aurea”, written by archbishop of Genoa Jacobus de Voragine in the 13th century.

Beside the city Silene in Libya was a pond with a “dragon which envenomed all the country”. The people of the city fed the beast 2 sheep each day. The people of the city also sacrificed humans to it.
St. George passed Silene one day, when the king’s daughter would be offered to the dragon. When St. George heard about it and saw the princess; he decided to slay the beast:

Thus as they spake together the dragon appeared and came running to them, and S. George was upon his horse, and drew out his sword and garnished him with the sign of the cross, and rode hardily against the dragon which came towards him, and smote him with his spear and hurt him sore and threw him to the ground.
And after said to the maid: Deliver to me your girdle [belt], and bind it about the neck of the dragon and be not afeard. When she had done so the dragon followed her as it had been a meek beast and debonair.

St. George then then slayed the dragon and converted the king and his people to the Christian faith.
In another tale, during the First Crusade, St. George is said to have helped the crusaders during their successful siege of Antioch in 1098: https://www.ancient-origins.net/history ... gon-005794
(archived here: http://archive.is/gWtWk)

I guess that you won´t be surprised that I think that the garter represents the girdle that was bound around the dragon´s neck...

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I was trying to put together Mithraism, serpent (dragon) worshipping and the legend of St. George (patron saint of the Order of the Garter).

It looks like Mithras wasn’t (isn’t) even the Supreme God, the Father, in Mithraism - but Ahura-Mazda...

In the seventeen or eighteen century B.C., the Persian pantheon was drastically reformed by Zarathustra (known in Greek as Zoroaster). Ahura-Mazda became supreme god of goodness, whereas Ahriman became the ultimate embodiment of evil. The reformation of Zarathustra retained the hundreds of Persian deities, ordered into a hierarchical system of “Immortals” and “Adored Ones” under the rule of either Ahura-Mazda or Ahriman.
(...)

According to the Avesta, the holy book of the religion of Zarathustra, Ahura-Mazda created Mithras in order to guarantee contracts and of promises. The name Mithras, in fact, became the Persian word for “contract”.
(...)

The Babylonians also incorporated their belief in destiny into the Mithraic worship of Zurvan, the Persian god of infinite time and father of the gods Ahura-Mazda and Ahriman.

In Hinduism, with its Trinity god, Mithras is praised as Mitra-Varuna.
There is also an obvious Trinity in Mithraism - Ahura-Mazda, Ahriman and Mithras – like in Christianity: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=745&start=10


Notmartha pointed to Phrygia, roughly what is now the Asian part of Turkey, where Mithraism flourished: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=745&start=30#p5740

Phrygia was a centre of snake, serpent worshipping and - Sabazios.
Sabazios is the horseman and sky father god of the Phrygians and Thracians (Thrace is roughly what is now the European part of Turkey) that seems to be the (copied) myth for the dragon slaying St. George...
See a Roman bronze statue of Mithras-Sabazios, 2nd/3rd century AD.


See the depiction of St. George of Labechina, Georgia, 11th century.


See St. George and the dragon on the 1823 Gold Two Pound Coin and 1887 Queen Victoria Jubilee Crown.


See St. George and the dragon on the stained glass window at St George’s Hall.



The cult of Sabazios (the Thracian Horseman) was popular in Classical Greece, and later spread throughout the Roman empire. We also know that it showed a good deal of simmilarites to the cult of Dionysus/Bacchus.

The Thracian Horseman is depicted as young, and usually shown wearing a cloak and armed with a lance. His image is usually accompanied by some adversarial animals: most often a snake twined around a tree, and sometimes by lions and other wild beasts.
See a typical image of Sabazios, here hunting a boar. The boar was a particularly ‘celtic’ image, whereas the serpent was more Greek or Eastern (compare this to St. George)...


The celebrant-priestesses, Maenads, became hysteric during ceremonies. This was probably caused by dance, chanting, but most importantly by the blood from the ritual slaughter of animals; in some cases ritually torn apart by the Maenads in sacrifice to the god: https://atlanticreligion.com/2014/08/10 ... acian-god/
(archived here: http://archive.is/Si5BB)


At the basis of the so-called Roman Mithraism lies the Sabazios religion of the Thracian cult to the sun. The ritual pictures Mithras ritually killing Sabazios (personified by the bull?) so that the new Sun is born.
On the Thracian horseman from Constantinople there are an eagle and snake on the tree of life. The horseman holds 3 tied twigs in his hand, for the trinity – Spirit of life,Earth, Sky.


In the iconography, Dionysus is marked by a young lion (for youth and strength). On the Mithra relief of the National Museum of History, Sofia, over the bull, is the ancient sign of the Sun, swastika. This emphasizes that the bull is a symbol for Sabazios.


Another interesting image is the “Hand of Sabazios”; sometimes depicted as the Orphic Egg. All have a serpent or basilisk representing the chthonic ideal. Most hands show a mother lying with her child on the wrist. This could be an allusion to Ariadne, wife of Dionysus in the Cretan-Greek version of the myth.
The birth and rebirth of Dionysus were central parts of the Orphic mystery-legend.


Other iconcography commonly associated with these hands include the Caduceus or wand of Hermes/Mercury, a set of scales, eagle, vines or ritual objects like a sacrificial knife. Some of these hands show an Orphic Egg.
On some hands, including that from Gradnitsa, along with the crested snake, the fir-cone and the lion, there is also a bull. What does the bull from “Sabazios’ hands” symbolise?

http://www.academia.edu/32038374/Thraci ... conography

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Note the “world tree” from which Odin was hanged: viewtopic.php?f=23&p=5773#p5773


An interesting symbol is the Tree of life that first appears in the Tanach (Old Testament) in Genesis 2:9 and 3:22-24 as the source of eternal life. It reappears in the last book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelation.

The Tree of life already appeared in the Indo-Iranian religion before Zoroastrianism. Ancient mythology of Iran includes the myth of 2 trees as ancestors of all living beings.


The Assyrian Tree of life was represented by a series of nodes and criss-crossing lines, often attended to by human or eagle-headed winged genies, or the King.
In ancient Urartu, the Tree of life was a religious symbol. The branches of the tree were equally divided on the right and left sides of the stem. See a fragment of a bronze helmet with the Tree of life.


According to a Taoist story a tree produces a peach of immortality every 3000 years.
See the following bronze Tree of life, with a dragon at the base, and a bird-like (Phoenix) creature with claws at the top from a sacrificial pit at Sanxingdui, China, around 1200 BC.


There is also a “tree of life” in the mystical Judaism sect, Kabbalah: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life
(archived here: http://archive.is/r2R1B)


See the cup of the Sumerian King Gudea of Lagash with 2 winged dragons, a caduceus of uniting snakes (the incarnation of the god Ningizzida).


Babylonians had a Tree of life, Palm style (later copied by the mystical Sufi Islam).

The following map shows the first migration of the Indo-European language south into Iran, then north into Central Asia (through Scythia) and finally turning back along the northern route into Europe.

Only archived version left: http://archive.is/leuZu


The following clay tablet shows a man and a woman (with a serpent “tempting” her) seated below the Tree of Life, 2500 BC.


See the Sumerian cylinder seal for Shamash/An with the sun, cedar Tree of life, tended by Enki, Enlil with the eagle-headed Apkallu.

https://treespiritwisdom.com/reincarnat ... nian-iraq/
(archived here: http://archive.is/Jtt7g)


See the Scythian buckle, found in burial mounds in Siberia, 600-400 BC.

[Firestarter]

How did the Carolingians depose the Merovingians as kings of the Franks?
They made a deal with the papacy, which gave the pope the power to then annoint King Pepin the short (a.k.a. Pippin) in 754.

The papacy, at the time was nominally subject to the Byzantine emperor in Constantinople, but was plagued by attacks from the Germanic Lombard tribe. A tribe friendly with the Carolingians...
Pope Stephen II (or III) turned for protection to Pepin the short, who held the position of Mayor of the Palace (for the Frankish Merovingian king).

On 28 July 754, Pope Stephen annointed Pepin and his 2 sons Charles and Carloman (giving them the title Patricius Romanorum) and depose the Merovingian kings.
In return Pope Stephen got the Donation of Constantine (Donatio Constantini) in which the 4th-century Roman emperor Constantine supposedly transferred authority over Rome and the Western part of the Roman Empire to Pope Sylvester I (if so, why would he give the Frankish Empire to a King?).
See a painting of Constantine donating to Sylvester...


In 756, King Pepin quickly defeated the Lombards and then gave the land, through the Donation of Pepin, to the papacy.
The Donation of Pepin was confirmed by Pepin’s successors, King Charlemagne and Louis the Pious in 778 and 817 respectively.
See a painting of Charlemagne (note the eagle and lion).


The Donation of Pepin was often used by the papacy in the 13th century.
It took until 1440 that Lorenzo Vallo proved that the Donation of Constantine was written several centuries after Constantine had been emperor.
There couldn’t have been a King Pepin, let alone a Donation of Pepin, without it. But they didn’t “change” the history that was all based on this forgery...

From 756 to 1929, ended by Mussolini, the Catholic Church had an empire and the Carolingian dynasty, united in the Order of the Garter, is still the most powerful in the world: http://lopezmedia.net/blog/6/4/2018
(archived here: http://web.archive.org/web/201902121537 ... g/6/4/2018)


Roman Emperor Constantine - Mithras, Sun worshipper - is effectively the founder of Christianity.
That he never converted to Christianity is ever more likely as the story in the 8th century was that he converted after he was cured from leprosy (see the Donation of Constantine!), but it’s now admitted he never suffered from leprosy and claimed that he converted on the eve of a battle...

Here’s an English translation of the Donation of Constantine: https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/donatconst.asp


Another interesting story that’s closely related with this topic, is that Sinterklaas, Santa Claus is based on the god Odin (a.k.a. Wodan), who originally came from Turkey (again!), and after whom Wednesday is named (while Thursday is named after Odin’s son Thor): viewtopic.php?f=23&t=745&start=40#p5773

[Firestarter]

The origin of the “slaying the dragon” legend remains obscure.
It is first recorded in the late sixth century and may originally have been an allegory of the persecution of Diocletian (a.k.a. Dadianus), who was sometimes referred to as “the dragon”.

It is commonly believed that the Christian version is derived from the Dragon of the Apocalypse in the Bible, mixed with the legend of Perseus.
According to myth the “Greek” god Perseus (with a Persian name?) rescued the virgin Andromeda from a sea monster at Arsuf or Jaffa, near Lydda (Diospolis). Sometimes the story is in Ethiopia, where a cult of St George grew around the site of George’s tomb.

One of Emperor Constantine´s bronze coins shows a labarum piercing a serpent, 326-330 AD.


A gold solidus of Valentinian III shows him with a long cross, transfixing a serpent with a human head, 424/5 AD.


In 1190, the red cross of St George was adopted on the flag of the City of London (the sword is the one that beheaded St Paul).
In 1277, Edward I on campaign in Wales first used St George’s Cross for an emblem of the English army.

In 1300, the banner of St George first appeared (distinct from red crosses on soldiers’ surcoats) at the siege of Caerlaverock, together with those of St Edward and St Edmund.

In 1348, it was founder of the Order of the Garter, Edward III, who started changing England’s patron saint to St George exclusively, by dedicating the new chapel at Windsor to him.
In 1354, wearing the cross of St George was the subject of a dispute between English crusaders and the Teutonic Knights and in 1391 a similar dispute between the Knights and the Earl of Derby.

In 1606, the cross of St George and the cross of St Andrew, patron saint of Scotland, were combined in the British Union flag.
The cross of St George is also the flag of the Church of England: http://collinsm.com/the-golden-legend/
(archived here: http://archive.is/WcVxR)


See the bas-relief with 3 saints riding, including George (on the right), St. Sergius (middle) and St. Theodore who is the only one fighting a dragon (on the left). An early depiction of St. George from Armenia, first half of 10thcentury.


See St George of Labechina, Racha, Georgia, 11th century.


George was often represented with Theodore, who was fighting a dragon.
Until the 11th century there wasn’t a single story about St. George killing any dragon: he was a soldier-martyr that had converted infidels.
The first know picture of George slaying the dragon is from Cappadocia, the church of St. Barbara in Soganli (11th century).

https://www.foliamagazine.it/saint-george-dragon/
(archived here: http://archive.is/hpyKa)


George is the patron saint of: Georgia, England, Egypt, Bulgaria, Aragon, Catalonia, Romania, Ethiopia, Greece, India, Iraq, Lithuania, Palestine, Portugal, Serbia, Ukraine and Russia;
the cities of Genoa, Amersfoort, Beirut, Botoşani, Drobeta Turnu-Severin, Timişoara, Fakiha, Bteghrine, Cáceres, Ferrara, Freiburg, Kragujevac, Kumanovo, Ljubljana, Pérouges, Pomorie, Preston, Qormi, Rio de Janeiro, Lod, Lviv, Barcelona, Moscow and Victoria;
the Scout Movement and the Order of the Garter.

In medieval romances, the lance with which St George slew the dragon was called Ascalon (named after the city of Ashkelon in the Levant).
The parallels with Perseus, Andromeda and Sabazios are inescapable. These myths predate Christianity: https://www.peachridgeglass.com/2012/10 ... ostetters/
(archived here: http://archive.is/CDZ0P)

[Firestarter]

According to myth the “Greek” god Perseus (with a Persian name?) rescued the virgin Andromeda from a sea monster at Arsuf or Jaffa, near Lydda (Diospolis). Sometimes the story is in Ethiopia, where a cult of St George grew around the site of George’s tomb.

One of the best known sources on Roman Mithraism is David Ulansey, who claims that Roman Mithraists really worshipped Perseus. I don´t follow that point of view but there are a couple of interesting links.

The most famous tale of demigod Perseus (son of supreme Greek God Zeus) is that he slayed Medusa on the orders of King Polydektes. With the help of the gods, Perseus obtained winged sandals, an invisible helm and a magical sword.
Perseus slayed Medusa as she slept and beheaded her with eyes averted to avoid turning to stone (this is similar to Mithras averted his eyes when slaying the bull).
See Perseus slaying Medusa, 5th BC.


The cult of St. George of Cappadocia, was established following the First Crusade in 1098, with a shrine at Lydda, where Perseus rescued Andromeda from the sea serpent: https://www.theoi.com/Heros/Perseus.html
(archived here: http://archive.is/iR8ec)


According to Nicholas de Vere, the origins of all of these Gods is the Trinity of the Scythian Anu (the Great Father of the Sky) and his sons Enki and Enlil (from 2 different mothers).
The offspring of Anu (whose parents were Anshar and Kishar) are the Anunnaki...

Ki gave birth to Enlil, Lord of the Air and Earth. Enlil cleaved the earth from heaven and took command of earth with his mother Ki
Antu’s child was Enki, Lord of the Earth and Waters.
See Enlil and Enki around the World tree.


Enlil is the “evil” God, who commissioned the creation of the human race, so he would have slaves.
Then Enki created human beings from clay and the blood of the slain god Kingu.

One day Enlil decides that he’s fed up with “creation” so decides to flood earth to exterminate all beings.
Enki doesn’t agree, so he warns the hero Atra-hasis (or Utnapishtim) to build an Ark and fill it with animals. With his wife he preserved life on earth; after the waters receded, he released the animals to repopulate the planet: http://www.annunaki.org/enki-enlil/
(archived here: http://archive.is/AzhrS)


What´s also interesting is that I might have found what the Roman Mithras slaying the bull is based on...
In the Epic of Gilgamesh (2100 BC), Gilgamesh slays the Bull of Heaven that Anu had given to his daughter Ishtar.